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PostSubject: Understanding   Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:59 am

Ever since the age of 10 I've realized that ultimately the universe functioned as a matter of purely cause and effect. A little later in my life I learned that perhaps there was some randomness on small scales, but such is irrelevant to the overarching theme. There were many things in my life that I didn't like, matter of fact I was downright furious, but I knew deep down that it was all a matter of cause and effect. I would always try to understand why things were the way they were, why people were the way they were, etc. It was a slippery slope to the way I am today -- unable to become angry at people, unable to formulate opinions on ethics, and unable to have my reasoning influenced by emotions. They are two very separate things for me, which may be why I love music so much.

While it is true I have personal preferences just like everyone else, they are only that -- personal preferences. I do not believe them to be any more significant than anyone else's personal preferences...such a quandary has parameters so loose that it couldn't even be pondered in the first place in fact. Do you think gut feelings and personal preferences ever get in the way of just trying to understand the nit grit cause and effect of things?

An example we may be familiar with is "sucky" music. Is it sucky because someone doesn't like it or is it sucky for some other reason? I'll often see something like this...

People who listen to band A listen to music that sucks. Band A sucks and people A who listen to it are "posers". Band A's music doesn't have any skill to it whatsoever.

But the unstated major premise is that whether a band sucks or not is dependent on whether they are skilled or not. It boils down to semantics from that point, what is the definition of sucky and is it compatible with the unstated major premise?

Anyways I'll also see people say things like this...

People who listen to band A listen to music that sucks. It isn't even music. Who cares how "skilled" they are if they can't write a song!

And of course this doesn't necessarily contradict the other line of reasoning but when I see it used in real life it almost always does. I'm just trying to show some of the arbitrariness of these analyzes.

Of course if there were no functioning human brains there wouldn't really be music. Music is what it is because of us. If a person likes a certain kind of music then I don't think they are enjoying "bad" music, they are just enjoying music or perhaps "music that I happen not to enjoy." Hip hop isn't death metal. It's very rarely technical at all, the song writing is very different, but does that make it music for people with bad taste, or music for people with different taste?

In my mind my set of personal preferences are just one set out of many many possible sets. To me it seems like many people believe their set of personal preferences to somehow hold a special podium above all others and if such is challenged they will attempt to use rationalizations that ultimately lead to no where. Perhaps I am misunderstanding a lot of the people who criticize other people for the music they listen to and use harsh language towards them. Perhaps most of these people are just doing it for fun, but it sure seems to me like a lot of them are genuinely angry or passionate about their position or cause. Could we use more understanding?

Note: Understanding is often associated with being kind, approachable, and easy going. I'm using understanding in more of the impersonal sense of understanding the cause and effect / state of things and not formulating unnecessary opinions or feelings on things of a simple machinist nature beyond matters of personal preference (and if it's a matter of personal preference I'll mention again that language specifying the origin of the perspective is necessary...making clear the statement is subjective and not objective).
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:09 pm

Right on VC
Our lifestyles are incredibly based on what others will find acceptable
I know mine is
When I meet someone new, I will agree on whatever they say, I don't know why, I just do
I know sometimes when I enter a conversation about I don't know the Toronto Maple Leafs hockey team. Everyone will be saying how much they suck. They are my favourite team ever, but I will only contribute to the topic and I will not say any counter-arguments
Even in threads, I most likely follow the mood of the conversation no matter what, and I own this place yet I still submit to others. I think its basic instinct, fit in with the environment. Dare to be different, but do not risk losing disposition of others because of it.

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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:29 pm

I agree with almost everything you wrote VR
but not with what you said about not letting emotionals impact your decisions
everyone lets their emotions affect their decisions at some point
it's that part of our brain that runs on pure primal instinct
I think what you meant is you're tactful
meaning that you can control making bad decisions because of your emotions
but everyone has their breaking point
emotions are powerful things
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:31 pm

Just when you think you can predict someone, they will do something crazy

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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:25 am

Well, i just got into a rather large disagreement with my friends. I asked them to listen to "a Change of seasons" by dream theater this weekend. they said that "ohhh, i dont like the metal bits". and my other friend was all, "dude, this is the same. it all sounds so similar". then he proceeded to make that dooo doooo dooo noise as he was imitating the beat.


Now, if they simply stated that it wasnt for them, i can understand. I dont ask for acceptance, i ask for a fair trial. They all like that folksy stuff, like Bob Dylan. IMHO, bob dylan is a joke. he cant play, or sing. i wil admit however, the man can write good lyrics. That being said, i proceed to say that i have listened to several albums of dylan and it wasnt for me. they got pissed and said "MAN, HE IS AWESOME". that got me angry because they were so eager to shoot down dream theater solely based on a genre classification rather than listening to it.

For awhile now, i have been branded "The Metal Head", so, naturally, all my arguments a rendered moot because "metal isnt really music"

I huess what the problem i have is that people are soo willing to denounce something because society says that they should. I think these people would dislike Dylan if he was negatively regarded in society.

whos with me?

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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:29 am

I agree
plus I've never been a fan of Dylan at all
i refuse to listen to him for any amount of time
i think his singing voice is terrible and his music boring and plain
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:30 am

There is something really strange about me when it comes to music
If I get too much of a vibe against metal, I will insult a perfectly good band for no reason. I don't understand why. I mean sometimes when my friends constantly insult my music I attack rap and the beatles. Even though the beatles made pretty much everything possible. I guess people see one negative impression on something and it sticks forever. This is one reason why I am so self concious of what people think of me, I don't want them to remember a mistake I have made

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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:31 am

im not really asking if we are all dylan haters. Im asking if we all dislike band-wagoners.
they do and say things because it is is deemed acceptable. im sure we are all slightly victim too it, even our beloved byd, but srsly, it doesnt have to happen with everything

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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:34 am

Well to say I dislike waggon jumpers would be hypocritical, I pretty much stick with the same mood as others. Like I said before, if people seem to be sad, I will not try to cheer them up. If people are happy, I tend to let the jokes fly more. If people are bashing something I don't care about I will join in. But when they are bashing something I do care about, that's when I dislike it. But I would probably do the same in their shoes

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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:35 am

yeah i agree brute
i just really don't like Dylan
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:37 am

yes., but you enjoy the things you disagree with. i think that people are staring to be conditioned to dislike things that society dictates they should dislike.

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Blink 182?
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Master Cthulhu wrote:
Where Bathory was an iron broadsword, this band is a big plastic one with "viking!" written on it in sparkly purple magic marker.
sarainadream wrote:
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:37 am

Ejaffin13 wrote:
yeah i agree brute
i just really don't like Dylan

than you are double-ly on my side lol
some dylan is ok in the right moment, but he is just sooo dayummmm screechy

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Blink 182?
Byd, this is how it starts, you know. One day it's "I like Blink 182", the next it's "I think I like men".
Master Cthulhu wrote:
Where Bathory was an iron broadsword, this band is a big plastic one with "viking!" written on it in sparkly purple magic marker.
sarainadream wrote:
No fucking worries I guess you cunts, just wanted to bloody well plant the careful seed in your maggot infested brains.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:40 am

That's true
I've disliked Bush for years just because my family is always saying how terrible he is
Then I finally ask, why?
Wastes all his money on war you say?
Ohhhh thats a good reason

Why does Bumblefoot hate Jonas Brothers so much?
Ohhh they are not good at instrument
Okay that's fair

Why are we gossiping?
Its fun?
That is forced

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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:40 am

no all dylan is always terrible lol
same with jack johnson
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:42 am

Whoa there, i like jack johnson. very calming.
i dont care what you think about it, but have you given it a fair try? maybe it just isnt for you

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Blink 182?
Byd, this is how it starts, you know. One day it's "I like Blink 182", the next it's "I think I like men".
Master Cthulhu wrote:
Where Bathory was an iron broadsword, this band is a big plastic one with "viking!" written on it in sparkly purple magic marker.
sarainadream wrote:
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:43 am

Is anything that I am saying striking the right chord or answering anything?

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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:44 am

i've listened to almost every dylan song and don't like any
and though i haven't listened to much jack johnson i am def not a fan at all
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:45 am

whatever, thats cool

and byd, i understand

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Blink 182?
Byd, this is how it starts, you know. One day it's "I like Blink 182", the next it's "I think I like men".
Master Cthulhu wrote:
Where Bathory was an iron broadsword, this band is a big plastic one with "viking!" written on it in sparkly purple magic marker.
sarainadream wrote:
No fucking worries I guess you cunts, just wanted to bloody well plant the careful seed in your maggot infested brains.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:15 am

brutality,thynameismetal wrote:
Well, i just got into a rather large disagreement with my friends. I asked them to listen to "a Change of seasons" by dream theater this weekend. they said that "ohhh, i dont like the metal bits". and my other friend was all, "dude, this is the same. it all sounds so similar". then he proceeded to make that dooo doooo dooo noise as he was imitating the beat.


Now, if they simply stated that it wasnt for them, i can understand. I dont ask for acceptance, i ask for a fair trial. They all like that folksy stuff, like Bob Dylan. IMHO, bob dylan is a joke. he cant play, or sing. i wil admit however, the man can write good lyrics. That being said, i proceed to say that i have listened to several albums of dylan and it wasnt for me. they got pissed and said "MAN, HE IS AWESOME". that got me angry because they were so eager to shoot down dream theater solely based on a genre classification rather than listening to it.

For awhile now, i have been branded "The Metal Head", so, naturally, all my arguments a rendered moot because "metal isnt really music"

I huess what the problem i have is that people are soo willing to denounce something because society says that they should. I think these people would dislike Dylan if he was negatively regarded in society.

whos with me?

When you rarely experience something it sometimes skips over your mind. Until I read this post I had actually forgotten that metal or people who listen to metal are sometimes looked down upon. The reason I probably haven't really encountered this is because I'm very secretive about music and only talk about it with people who I know will not be judgmental before hand. I also tend to only say things that I know won't lead to conflict or anything of the sort.


"Is anything that I am saying striking the right chord or answering anything?"
-breakyoudown

Sorry I'll try to respond to some of the things as soon as I get the chance. But yes I am reading what you are saying and I'll add some reflections soon.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:20 am

im weird. i really want to tell everyone that im a metal head, but im afraid that i will be judged. iim a fairly outgoing, clean cut guy, who likes to laugh and be himself, not the "stereotypical" metal head. i desperately want to tell everyone that i love to play air guitar and pretend to tap like an m-f-er. i want to tell people that the death growls dont bother me , that in fact i enjoy a good pig-squeal once in awhile.
the other side wants to stay hidden so i can enjoy metal in peace and not have to be stared at by people who simply cannot grasp the fact that some people like the type of music i listen to.

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Blink 182?
Byd, this is how it starts, you know. One day it's "I like Blink 182", the next it's "I think I like men".
Master Cthulhu wrote:
Where Bathory was an iron broadsword, this band is a big plastic one with "viking!" written on it in sparkly purple magic marker.
sarainadream wrote:
No fucking worries I guess you cunts, just wanted to bloody well plant the careful seed in your maggot infested brains.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:01 am

i agree
But what really defines a poser more of?
a poser, to me, is someone who doesnt just listen to
a shitty band, more of listens to ONE SONG by a band.
Also, posers are people that think they are something, and have a specific
mindset towards music "if its popular, we will listen to it". You can't call some
of the bands of today poser bands, because, quite frankley, not all of them suck.
Bands that fit the "sucky poser" criteria are A7X, Metallica after black album, Fall
Out Boy, Dragonforce, I could go on and on, but most people dont give bands a chance
before they call people posers that listen to them. I look towards rap as completely
poser music, because i here singles only on the radio and nobody actually buys the
whole motherfucking album in rap. Mindsets towards music with me and my friends are
hardley poser, though we listen to maybe a little more popular metal, we try to squeeze in
some underground stuff and give our own seperate perspectives on music. One thing that really
bothers me, is when people call metalheads emos. WE ARE NOT ****ing EMOS!!!! WE ARE THE FURTHEST THING FROM EMO MOTHERFUCKERS THERE IS!!! WE ACUTALLY WANT TO DECAPITATE EMOS AND FEED ON THEIR ENTRAILS. Peoples mother ****ing stereotypes bug the **** out of me, though we all could not stereotype others,
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:05 am

Also, being a metal head is more then liking a type of music. You generally have a different outlook on everything and everyone, and metalheads generally are very observant people as well as musicians in one form or another. Who really does listen to Meshuggah because of the vocals besides people that are vocalists? Mainly metalheads actually can see talent in the music world, and know who is good and who isnt at their respective instruments. I see myself not as a stereotypical metalhead, because, also contrary to popular belief, i don't worship satan, have orgys, eat children, and murder people on a regular basis (though who doesn't do that every once and a while, kidding kidding.) I actually listen to metal because of the talent in the music, and because it really defines me as a person.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:06 am

brutality,thynameismetal wrote:
Well, i just got into a rather large disagreement with my friends. I asked them to listen to "a Change of seasons" by dream theater this weekend. they said that "ohhh, i dont like the metal bits". and my other friend was all, "dude, this is the same. it all sounds so similar". then he proceeded to make that dooo doooo dooo noise as he was imitating the beat.


Now, if they simply stated that it wasnt for them, i can understand. I dont ask for acceptance, i ask for a fair trial. They all like that folksy stuff, like Bob Dylan. IMHO, bob dylan is a joke. he cant play, or sing. i wil admit however, the man can write good lyrics. That being said, i proceed to say that i have listened to several albums of dylan and it wasnt for me. they got pissed and said "MAN, HE IS AWESOME". that got me angry because they were so eager to shoot down dream theater solely based on a genre classification rather than listening to it.

For awhile now, i have been branded "The Metal Head", so, naturally, all my arguments a rendered moot because "metal isnt really music"

I huess what the problem i have is that people are soo willing to denounce something because society says that they should. I think these people would dislike Dylan if he was negatively regarded in society.

whos with me?

i am 100000000000 percent of the way my good man
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:14 am

breakyoudown wrote:
Right on VC
Our lifestyles are incredibly based on what others will find acceptable
I know mine is
When I meet someone new, I will agree on whatever they say, I don't know why, I just do
I know sometimes when I enter a conversation about I don't know the Toronto Maple Leafs hockey team. Everyone will be saying how much they suck. They are my favourite team ever, but I will only contribute to the topic and I will not say any counter-arguments
Even in threads, I most likely follow the mood of the conversation no matter what, and I own this place yet I still submit to others. I think its basic instinct, fit in with the environment. Dare to be different, but do not risk losing disposition of others because of it.

Yeah I know what you are talking about. I have a problem with honest; I have a very hard time lying over non-trivial matters. When someone asks me a question that I don't want to answer (and lying usually isn't an option for me, just by nature) then I either don't answer or tell them "I don't know" or "I don't care."

I used to be a lot like everyone else because I was brought up like everyone else. For about 10 years now I've been pretty much on my own when it comes to what is going through my head. I've also been largely isolated from my peers and from tradition and culture. I find my thoughts on things to be so different from most other people's that I really can't just start saying them; I would get beheaded. I'm trying to get better at interacting but it's a long and painful process. Meanwhile you just "go with the flow" because that is the path of least resistance.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:56 pm

Man my philosophy teacher uses me as an example for his lectures everyday
And he always feels the need to apologize after, man I am not that sensitive I mean damn son

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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:32 am

well, i think he does that so he gives you a chance to say "stop" if it annoys you. i think he is doing the right thing to avoid problems in the future

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Where Bathory was an iron broadsword, this band is a big plastic one with "viking!" written on it in sparkly purple magic marker.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding   Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:40 pm

That guy is a legend

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