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Axe
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PostSubject: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:05 am

This thought was inspired by the opening lecture of my Music Theory class, a course that teaches tons of the technical aspects of music, as well as musical history.

My teacher began by telling us how little everyone knows about music. She was telling us how even she, an older woman with a master's degree, still only knows a tiny little bit about music. This is of course, the technical aspects of music. Chord progressions, keys, harmonies, etc.

She was telling us about music, and it made me think about music in a way that makes perfect sense. Music is simply noise. Noise that, when made in a certain way, at a certain speed, with other noises, sounds good to a person. But, more than that, it made me think about the complexity of music. When you here these bands, such as Punk Rock bands, who use 3 or 4 chords in their songs, it becomes boring very fast. I love Punk Rock, but it does get old very quickly. Just think about when you turn on your music. You will have tens of thousands of songs in your personal library, but what songs do you listen to? The same songs, over and over and over again. You will turn on a Ramones song and say "I like the sound of that", but then right after that you will turn on the same song you listen to everyday. Like me, since I've discovered Equilibrium I've listened to them almost daily. I can't turn on my Zune of my Windows Media Player without listening to them at least once. But as for the Ramones, I might listen to a song or two once in a blue moon. Why is that?

It's not because I don't like the Ramones, but it's because their music lacks the complexity of other bands. You can listen to "Rock & Roll High School" and get every thing you can get from the music the first time you hear it. But as for an Equilibrium song like "Blut Im Auge", you are constantly trying to figure out the music. You are listening to the major chord changes that occur all the time, and the many different sounds that you might not here the first, second, or twentieth time of listening to it. Wintersun is the same way. There is soooooo much going on, you want to listen to it more and more and more.

This is what makes music enjoyable. You can turn on the mainstream rock station and here a Nickelback song, and wonder why it's playing. This is because a lot of people who aren't major music lovers like to here songs while they are going through their lives. They here that and think it sounds good, but don't listen to music for anything deeper. They don't listen to it for the lyrics, for the key/chord progressions, or for the intent of the music. They don't listen to music to find a deeper meaning. A great example of this is my parents. They listen to all this mainstream stuff because it sounds "good", but only because of that. They don't explore the music, they don't live the music.

I think that's why the majority of metalheads I know (mostly the forum community here) happens to be huge music lovers. They almost always enjoy playing music, writing music, and exploring the music. They live the music. I think it's because music lovers tend to find that special something in metal music. Mainstream society who doesn't explore music for deeper meaning hates metal music, I think, because they take everything they take from music at the song's face value. Music lover's look for something deeper, something that metal music has 95% of the time.

This is just something I've been thinking about, because the fact that metal is nearly shunned from society interests me. I think there is a reason that mainstream society doesn't like metal, but that metal is massively appealing to another culture.

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:07 am

Hmm makes me wonder why I like super simple 3 chord songs xD
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:08 am

blackstar wrote:
Hmm makes me wonder why I like super simple 3 chord songs xD
AMEN ,,
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:12 am

I love the simple songs, but Hate, I know you love Slayer. Slayer is a band you listen to over and over and over again. Why do you like them? Because their music doesn't get old to you. If I sit here with a guitar and strum two chords you will probably get bored.

Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong with simple progressions, I love punk rock and simple music, but I've noticed that most of the metal music I like is very complex, mostly stuff I can't figure out how to play.

Pretty much that was leading up to why a lot of people hate metal and why a small community loves metal.

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:17 am

I agree Axe, but why do we get shunned of all people? Because of IMAGE! The mass of society look down on people rebelling, which is why alot of punk is just as unliked as metal. Punk and metal are pretty much brothers in the mass conglomerate of music. Metal is disliked mainly because people need to hear a pretty voice and clever lyrics and it has to have a steady bass beat for their car stereos. Metal people enjoy every spectrum of music equally except rap, because we are trying to get away from the popular image more then anything. Metal people are actually more of the equalizers of music, there has to be a, as the preppy and popular mainstream musicians say, evil side of music, and everyone thinks it's metal. In fact, simple music is the enemy because of how it leads to people shunning everything else. Music in the mainstream has become lost over the years, mainly from the glam area of the 80's, also due to how everyone needs to hear the same thing alot. Music is what you said it was Axe, and what your teacher said it was, we metalheads are possibly the most respectful of all forms of music.
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:19 am

+ rep

you said exactly how I felt, in so few words

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:21 am

Axeforhire wrote:
I love the simple songs, but Hate, I know you love Slayer. Slayer is a band you listen to over and over and over again. Why do you like them? Because their music doesn't get old to you. If I sit here with a guitar and strum two chords you will probably get bored.

Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong with simple progressions, I love punk rock and simple music, but I've noticed that most of the metal music I like is very complex, mostly stuff I can't figure out how to play.

Pretty much that was leading up to why a lot of people hate metal and why a small community loves metal.
Your on point ,, I love the simple stuff like sabbath , priest , ac /dc but sometime you need more .. You need that song thats so hard to play , but stuff like Yngwie Malmsteen stuff just gets old .. I love all types of music but its all about mood .. Today its been old punk and early rock .. Play some mc5 and you will know what i talking bout .. You need the simple progressions sometimes just like you need the 50000 note stuff also .
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:22 am

I wasn't trying to be offensive, but I think that because metal is not mainstream, it has the freedom to go in so many weird directions. Directions that might fail (Nightwish, to a lot of you), directions that might revolutionize music (folk metal was such a weird mixture, it sounds like it would fail, but I love it love it love it), and directions that push the limits for everyone else (Black Sabbath?). I think it's because of this, less mainstream music is more complex and has the meaning behind it, whereas 50 Cent is over there rapping about smoking weed and partying.

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:24 am

hateyou1st wrote:
Axeforhire wrote:
I love the simple songs, but Hate, I know you love Slayer. Slayer is a band you listen to over and over and over again. Why do you like them? Because their music doesn't get old to you. If I sit here with a guitar and strum two chords you will probably get bored.

Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong with simple progressions, I love punk rock and simple music, but I've noticed that most of the metal music I like is very complex, mostly stuff I can't figure out how to play.

Pretty much that was leading up to why a lot of people hate metal and why a small community loves metal.
Your on point ,, I love the simple stuff like sabbath , priest , ac /dc but sometime you need more .. You need that song thats so hard to play , but stuff like Yngwie Malmsteen stuff just gets old .. I love all types of music but its all about mood .. Today its been old punk and early rock .. Play some mc5 and you will know what i talking bout .. You need the simple progressions sometimes just like you need the 50000 note stuff also .

Exactly. But I wouldn't necessarily call that stuff simple. I mean, for the time everyone was trying to figure out what Black Sabbath was doing. That's what made it intriguing

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:26 am

Rap has only a few main themes. f***ing, Shooting, Drinking, Smoking, and Gangbanging. Any asshole with a microphone can make rap. Not metal. Metal takes skill, and a special outlook on society.
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:26 am

Axeforhire wrote:
I wasn't trying to be offensive, but I think that because metal is not mainstream, it has the freedom to go in so many weird directions. Directions that might fail (Nightwish, to a lot of you), directions that might revolutionize music (folk metal was such a weird mixture, it sounds like it would fail, but I love it love it love it), and directions that push the limits for everyone else (Black Sabbath?). I think it's because of this, less mainstream music is more complex and has the meaning behind it, whereas 50 Cent is over there rapping about smoking weed and partying.
I understand .. Have you heard any of my stuff ?? I get told i need to dumb it down if i want anyone to ever play it .. Its all what you like , Yes im a slayer nut and i blast slayer almost everyday but somedays when im sad or just tired i want the stuff thats not so hard on my head .. Remember im old and sometimes stuff makes my head hurt .. lol It will come to you when you hit 35 brother ...
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:28 am

link wrote:
Rap has only a few main themes. f***ing, Shooting, Drinking, Smoking, and Gangbanging. Any asshole with a microphone can make rap. Not metal. Metal takes skill, and a special outlook on society.
You for got bitchs and drugs ..
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:29 am

I know what you mean Hate. but like Black Metal, there is sooooo much complex, lite, ambient stuff out there. Metal music has the soul. A lot of mainstream music doesn't, and it's the soul that makes your music amazing and complex Hate.


Link" I'm not a fan of rap. at all. But I think there is some out there with meaningful lyrics, not just the mainstream stuff you here all the time. But I agree, it's the same with mainstream rock. It's all about the same things, and it's all for money

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:32 am

Axeforhire wrote:
I know what you mean Hate. but like Black Metal, there is sooooo much complex, lite, ambient stuff out there. Metal music has the soul. A lot of mainstream music doesn't, and it's the soul that makes your music amazing and complex Hate.


Link" I'm not a fan of rap. at all. But I think there is some out there with meaningful lyrics, not just the mainstream stuff you here all the time. But I agree, it's the same with mainstream rock. It's all about the same things, and it's all for money
AMEN AND + REP !! Its all $$$$ .. Without the cash there would be no nickleback or kid rock or anyother s*** !
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:33 am

Cash is NOT what music is about. It's expression of thought and emotion. I would rather be a hobo and play guitar then get lost in the money and play s***.
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:36 am

link wrote:
Cash is NOT what music is about. It's expression of thought and emotion. I would rather be a hobo and play guitar then get lost in the money and play s***.
Thats what i do everyday .. I play for the love of music not the cash ..
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:36 am

Thanks bro

That's pretty much the main point. If bands like that didn't have the money clouding their minds, they would still have soul. I'm sure bands like that had soul when they started because they love music, but it became destroyed over time. That led to bands making that single that sounds the same as the rest of their songs because they know the radio will play it. And that, is what destroys creativity. Metal bands generally don't need to worry about that.


I guess the fact that mainstream society hates metal is a good thing in a way. In fact, I think metal would die if society liked it

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:37 am

link wrote:
Cash is NOT what music is about. It's expression of thought and emotion. I would rather be a hobo and play guitar then get lost in the money and play s***.

Exactly. In fact, I hope I never become super famous. I want to make my music, I don't want to be changed by fame and money

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:38 am

Axeforhire wrote:
Thanks bro

That's pretty much the main point. If bands like that didn't have the money clouding their minds, they would still have soul. I'm sure bands like that had soul when they started because they love music, but it became destroyed over time. That led to bands making that single that sounds the same as the rest of their songs because they know the radio will play it. And that, is what destroys creativity. Metal bands generally don't need to worry about that.


I guess the fact that mainstream society hates metal is a good thing in a way. In fact, I think metal would die if society liked it

No something is spawned that is so vulgar that metalheads can't stand it. IT'S SLIPKNOT! AND DEATHCORE! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:39 am

Axeforhire wrote:
Thanks bro

That's pretty much the main point. If bands like that didn't have the money clouding their minds, they would still have soul. I'm sure bands like that had soul when they started because they love music, but it became destroyed over time. That led to bands making that single that sounds the same as the rest of their songs because they know the radio will play it. And that, is what destroys creativity. Metal bands generally don't need to worry about that.


I guess the fact that mainstream society hates metal is a good thing in a way. In fact, I think metal would die if society liked it
It did .. THE 90S With glam/hair metal ...
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:41 am

This is the kind of stuff that people think is real metal. bands like slipknot and deathcore bands are just small jewels at the entrance of a cave, the cave that leads to a goldmine that 95% of people never find.

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:42 am

hateyou1st wrote:
Axeforhire wrote:
Thanks bro

That's pretty much the main point. If bands like that didn't have the money clouding their minds, they would still have soul. I'm sure bands like that had soul when they started because they love music, but it became destroyed over time. That led to bands making that single that sounds the same as the rest of their songs because they know the radio will play it. And that, is what destroys creativity. Metal bands generally don't need to worry about that.


I guess the fact that mainstream society hates metal is a good thing in a way. In fact, I think metal would die if society liked it
It did .. THE 90S With glam/hair metal ...

I love Glam Metal, but I can tell you right now that Glam Metal is one of the worst things to happen to music, just because it became mainstream. It changed so many bands after the glam metal scene....

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:42 am

Glam metal makes me sick honestly.
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:44 am

What society doesnt understand is that metal basically has the same musicality of classical music, its just put in a heavier more aggresrive form. Everyone just thinks it is noise or 'screamo'
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:45 am

I correct motherfuckers that say screamo, because that term is sacraligious in metal.
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:46 am

I hate that people call everything with screaming or growling vocals screamo. Pisses me off so much

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:49 am

Everyone in my school calls metal screamo because all the scene kids advertise there deathcore s*** as metal
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:08 am

Reducing music to mathematical complexity annoys me, and I'm probably the biggest tech-death fan you'll ever find.

Music is an art, and art is about resonance, about connecting with people. The reason these 3 chord punk bands do well is that the major chords sound good, much as a Turner pianting looks good. If you get bored with it fine, but people who don't aren't evil, they're just people who know they like chocolate and don't wan't to try something different, something savoury. You can't blame people for being average, otherwise how do you set a standard for yourself?

Personally I love Kiss and a lot of glam stuff, which is very simple, but it gives me an eargasm when I listen to it, just the same way Psycroptic does.

I like most types of music (and count myself as a decent muscian, playing several instruments) and find reducing something to how hard it is to play snobish. If you have any kind of muscial ear, you can decifer most of whats going on in 99% of metal songs within 2 listens anyway, at least if you know your phrygian scale (Metallica), when someones plays in drop C (Nile) and when someone plays in compound timesigs, like 9/8 (Rush) and who are the posers of complexity/progressiveness (Opeth, though they still sound amazing, you'd be suprised how much they play in 4/4), you start picking things up after a while and you soon know the songs ins and outs as you hear them.

Metal is not the the 20th century's equivalent of classical music: classical music is. Its moniker is misleading, you'd think no one was composing today. It doesn't share its musicallity at all. Composing for 31 strings and 8 woodwinds amongst others, along with the modes and dynamics used, especially in stuff like Wagner is a far cry from metal. Michael Kamen can say what he wants, Metallica aren't composers in disguise.

Music is in the ear of the beholder, by that I mean, we all listen to what sounds good, you don't sit there analysing the complexity of neo-folk finger picking techniques do you, because you just don't listen to it full stop. You like the sound of metal: you're not meant to sit there stripping songs to their bones, just enjoy what it's doing for your ears.

Music can be something deeper, there will always be lyrics that mean something more to you, a sound that feels so perfectly right you can't explain it, but you can't become high and mighty when people are doing what they are supposed to be doing with music: listening to it!
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:54 am

I enjoy a lot of music that is technical and a lot of music that is simple. I can listen to simple songs over and over again but I agree they usually get old sooner than something more complicated.

Personally I listen to music for the emotional side. If it is intense and doesn't involve feelings of happiness, love, or sexuality, then I probably like it. I'm of the same outlook as Dies Irae: Music is in the ear of the beholder. That's why I don't really make bad comments about other kinds of music, though deep inside I feel far more privileged to be able to listen to all the kinds of music I do listen to.
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:32 pm

glam metal rules

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:30 pm

Interesting read
I don't know if a certain formula that only exists in metal makes us more interested in music, but it certainly is a cool thing to think about

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:23 pm

This was just something to think about. I have no concrete evidence of any of this, but I was trying to reason my way to some sort of conclusion. I love all kinds of music, like you guys stated. I love glam metal, I love folk music, I love punk. Hell, I love the blues and old 1920's jazz. But for some reason, when I want something to really connect with, something that really gets my heart rate up and makes me sweat, I turn on metal, be it soft, melodic metal or bare bones, brutal metal. i love it all, and I think one reason why I love it IS it's complexity, not to say that everyone loves music to be complex. But, I can't listen to a Steve Vai song I've never heard before and tell you what's going on. It takes me multiple listens to understand the song. And I don't mean to know what he's doing, i mean to REALLY understand the song. To get an emotional reaction from it, and this has happened to so many different types of metal. Nightwish, Steve Vai, Equilibrium, Ensiferum, and Led Zeppelin to name a few.

You see, for me music is kind of a puzzle. Sometimes it takes a while to figure it out. You don't turn on a song and immediately understand the composer's intent, or the complex rhythmic changes, or the scales that have been completely reworked. It's a puzzle, and you study it to understand it and to unlock the real song. The song that brings out emotions in you, and that makes you wonder and dream, and to think. A lot of times in music you don't listen to the song, you hear the song. You have to hear the song a few times and realize that you don't know enough to listen to the song.

But that's not to say this kind of thing doesn't occur in other forms of music. Classical styles contain some of the most complex things that you won't understand because they were composed by some of the most brilliant composers that you will ever hear about.

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:44 pm

Simple music can be just as good, if not better, than complex music.

Take doom metal, for instance. A lot of it is minimalistic (drone, namely), but it evokes a feeling that no other type of music could achieve with complexity.
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:46 pm

True

Another example of that is The Doors, actually. Some of their music is quite simple, and has a lot of improvisation in the solos. But, some of it can be the most enjoyable and thought provoking music out there.

But from a simply musical standpoint, complex music tends to make me think more. Usually just about the process of writing and the progressions and stuff

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:49 pm

I wouldn't want a simple Prog song, just as I wouldn't want a complex Doom song.
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:51 pm

A simple prog song... that would be almost impossible lol.

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:57 pm

I think the most simple metal is Black Label Society, some of Zak's songs have pretty much 4 lines of lyrics that just repeat

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:58 pm

Most simple is probably Sunn O)))

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG97k6DMNVM
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:04 pm

That was damn simple. I've never heard of them, probably because I'm not a huge fan of black metal.

I need to get into it more, but I can't

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:04 pm

Listening to drone metal puts me in a trance like state

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:07 pm

Imagine that!

I've actually not explored drone metal that much. Too much metal to listen too...

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:10 pm

Drone is awesome live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a0Z2yndlOs
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:14 pm

I'm going to need to check out Drone Metal more. I feel like such a noob

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:15 pm

Drone is pretty awesome I agree.
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:15 pm

Blackstar, you need to post more. I'm watching you son....

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:16 pm

lol sorry I've been rather busy getting moved into college and doing orientation s***.
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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:17 pm

Hahahaha i know. I just intend to keep all of our quality members, and that means you.

s***, Lina hasn't logged in for a long time. And Brute has been away too....

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:19 pm

Very atmospheric along with great stage presence. Its obviously intended for an audience who can just listen to the melody and reflect on events it seems. But I don't completely understand this strange sub genre yet

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:20 pm

Lina told me she's coming back, I'm afraid a lot of things in her life have taken a turn for the worst

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PostSubject: Re: My Theory Of Music   Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:22 pm

Well we understand that real life takes priority. But yes on to drone I feel the same way about drone and harsh doom. I enjoy it for the base emotional and melody or lack there of. It's in no way a technical expierence.

Asva is by far my favorite drone band. The intro is long but its worth the wait imo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGYOfI3oHKI&feature=related
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