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 That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion

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blackstar
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:29 pm

Now this is just getting ridiculous.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:30 pm

Hating on people because of their religion is almost as bad as racism, its quite ridiculous these days
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:31 pm

Axeforhire wrote:
They make the choice to be gay,

You are an idiot...

Do you honestly think that?
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:33 pm

PortraitOfSanity wrote:
Axeforhire wrote:
They make the choice to be gay,

You are an idiot...

Do you honestly think that?

Axe is correct actually
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:34 pm

That was a joke. It was socially unacceptable to be homosexual for the longest time, much like it was and still is socially unacceptable to engange in bestiality. From a christian standpoint, homosexuality is a sin and is frowned upon. I find that people are challenging things that the church has influenced in time, and homosexuality is one of the first of such challenges. See, as a christian I disagree with homosexuality. I belive that it is a mortal sin. But it's such that if someone is a homosexual it doesn't affect me. Therefore, I don't have a problem with the people that are homosexuals. I just have a problem with homosexuality, if that makes sense.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:34 pm

PortraitOfSanity wrote:
Axeforhire wrote:
They make the choice to be gay,

You are an idiot...

Do you honestly think that?
sure do.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:35 pm

MarshallEMG wrote:
PortraitOfSanity wrote:
Axeforhire wrote:
They make the choice to be gay,

You are an idiot...

Do you honestly think that?

Axe is correct actually



I'm bisexual. So really, when I tell you you're wrong here, you know you're wrong. Just take my word for it, ok?

Sexuality is NOT a choice.


Last edited by PortraitOfSanity on Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:36 pm

Axeforhire wrote:
That was a joke. It was socially unacceptable to be homosexual for the longest time, much like it was and still is socially unacceptable to engange in bestiality. From a christian standpoint, homosexuality is a sin and is frowned upon. I find that people are challenging things that the church has influenced in time, and homosexuality is one of the first of such challenges. See, as a christian I disagree with homosexuality. I belive that it is a mortal sin. But it's such that if someone is a homosexual it doesn't affect me. Therefore, I don't have a problem with the people that are homosexuals. I just have a problem with homosexuality, if that makes sense.

My Pastor said that Homosexuality is a sin just like lying, stealing, etc. Its not a worse offense than any other sin.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:37 pm

So if I wanted to go f*** an animal, it would be okay if I said I was born that way?

Look, I don't have anything against you as a person, but I think that being gay is wrong. I also believe it's a choice. You can think you were born that way, but you are not gay unless you act on it
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:38 pm

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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:38 pm

MarshallEMG wrote:
Axeforhire wrote:
That was a joke. It was socially unacceptable to be homosexual for the longest time, much like it was and still is socially unacceptable to engange in bestiality. From a christian standpoint, homosexuality is a sin and is frowned upon. I find that people are challenging things that the church has influenced in time, and homosexuality is one of the first of such challenges. See, as a christian I disagree with homosexuality. I belive that it is a mortal sin. But it's such that if someone is a homosexual it doesn't affect me. Therefore, I don't have a problem with the people that are homosexuals. I just have a problem with homosexuality, if that makes sense.

My Pastor said that Homosexuality is a sin just like lying, stealing, etc. Its not a worse offense than any other sin.

Exactly! God sees no sin greater than another.

I know that a lot of people on this site don't believe in God, but this is the christian believe.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:38 pm

When did we get off on the topic of religion. I haven't said a word about that.

What I'm going to drop here is back on the argument of "choosing to be gay" or whatever the f*** that was. I mean I'm a MtF transgender and I've had to deal with emotional problems with that for most of my life and especially the past five years because of the physical, emotional, and cultural constraints on the matter. Now do you think I would honestly choose to have to deal with something like that and put myself in that position. I mean people are attacked and killed because they are like me. My best friend is gay and I had to see the things he delt with because of who he was. I mean honestly do you think people just throw themselves into positions like that if they had a "choice" not to. Portrait I think you can agree with me on this.

In some places yeah its ok to be TG or be gay but in a lot of places it still isn't ok I know it isn't down here where I live and thats why it offends me like it does. I'm not saying your stupid and I still consider you a friend I'm just trying to show you a different perspective on this matter.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:38 pm

Axeforhire wrote:
So if I wanted to go f*** an animal, it would be okay if I said I was born that way?

Look, I don't have anything against you as a person, but I think that being gay is wrong. I also believe it's a choice. You can think you were born that way, but you are not gay unless you act on it

I realize that you're brainwashed and everything, but man you're a hatchet job. Do you even listen to yourself?
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:39 pm

rofl at all the butthurt people in here
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:40 pm

Master Cthulhu wrote:
rofl at all the butthurt people in here

I'm not pissed at all actually. Some peoples' ignorance just blows my mind.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:42 pm

I know what you mean man, I've just been brought up and been taught as a christian that being a homosexual is wrong.

The topic at hand was actually whether or not we should use "gay" as an insult, and I was just pointing out that it wouldn't bother me if I was gay. Just like if you used the term metalhead as an insult. Or fatass or something because I'm a big guy. I am the person I am, and if someone doesn't like it they can f*** off. Do you understand what I mean? I'm basically saying let it go. It might not be right, but it shouldn't change what you feel is right
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:42 pm

So you think everyone should be gay?
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:43 pm

PortraitOfSanity wrote:
Axeforhire wrote:
So if I wanted to go f*** an animal, it would be okay if I said I was born that way?

Look, I don't have anything against you as a person, but I think that being gay is wrong. I also believe it's a choice. You can think you were born that way, but you are not gay unless you act on it

I realize that you're brainwashed and everything, but man you're a hatchet job. Do you even listen to yourself?

yeah, and do you realize you're a f***ing moron?
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:43 pm

MarshallEMG wrote:
So you think everyone should be gay?

Who said that?
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:44 pm

X is not necessarily proven by Y, therefore X is not true does not follow.
Also I saw a strawman. I'm not going to get into logical fallacies though because that alienates a lot of people from being considerate of another person's ideas.

I'm staying away from the science stuff and just going by simple social example. I find it highly implausible that someone would drive themselves to severe social stigma, severe physical pain, death, or worse...just so they can enjoy sexual attraction to members of the same gender. I find it highly implausible that there would be a massive conspiracy among people who are gay to behave and communicate as if it were a choice.

And then why someone would care, as I said, it's a matter of life circumstances. We go through different circumstances. Some of us would be more aware of the things that happen and some of us would be less aware. Personally I can easily see why one would care so much from my little experience with similar things and simply being observant and putting myself in others' shoes (which I always do).

Also I'm not discussing the religion side of this. If you find homosexuality disagreeable because of your religion I really don't mind, as long as you honestly believe it. I'm discussing the choice and care factors.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:46 pm

blackstar wrote:
MarshallEMG wrote:
So you think everyone should be gay?

Who said that?

Well portrait disagrees with axe saying that homosexuality is wrong which must mean he thinks homosexuality is right.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:46 pm

I think he was trying to use your logic, or at least what I'm picking up. The way it sounds is that you think that people are either

A.) born straight, gay, or both

or

B.) born them, and are gay or straight. If that makes sense
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:47 pm

This wouldve never started if i had simply used the word douchebag instead of gay lol
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:49 pm

MarshallEMG wrote:
blackstar wrote:
MarshallEMG wrote:
So you think everyone should be gay?

Who said that?

Well portrait disagrees with axe saying that homosexuality is wrong which must mean he thinks homosexuality is right.

That doesn't even make f***ing sense. Now you are being stupid. I think its perfectly ok and normal to be gay, lesbian, transgender, straight, whatever. None of them are right, none of them are wrong they are all ok. None of them hurt anyone else so why would they be wrong?
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:50 pm

VacuousReality wrote:
X is not necessarily proven by Y, therefore X is not true does not follow.
Also I saw a strawman. I'm not going to get into logical fallacies though because that alienates a lot of people from being considerate of another person's ideas.

I'm staying away from the science stuff and just going by simple social example. I find it highly implausible that someone would drive themselves to severe social stigma, severe physical pain, death, or worse...just so they can enjoy sexual attraction to members of the same gender. I find it highly implausible that there would be a massive conspiracy among people who are gay to behave and communicate as if it were a choice.

And then why someone would care, as I said, it's a matter of life circumstances. We go through different circumstances. Some of us would be more aware of the things that happen and some of us would be less aware. Personally I can easily see why one would care so much from my little experience with similar things and simply being observant and putting myself in others' shoes (which I always do).

Also I'm not discussing the religion side of this. If you find homosexuality disagreeable because of your religion I really don't mind, as long as you honestly believe it. I'm discussing the choice and care factors.

Well, the way i see it is it's a choice, and that's because of my religion. If you believe a gay person was born that way it's fine. Neither can really be proven, unless of course we find some genetic or biological way to determine it.

But it started to come to insults when I said I thought it was a choice. Apparently I'm not allowed t believe that. And the reason we are discussing religion is because that's the reason I believe it's a choice, then this portraitofsanity character starts insulting me
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:51 pm

MarshallEMG wrote:
blackstar wrote:
MarshallEMG wrote:
So you think everyone should be gay?

Who said that?

Well portrait disagrees with axe saying that homosexuality is wrong which must mean he thinks homosexuality is right.

False dichotomy.

Axeforhire wrote:
I think he was trying to use your logic, or at least what I'm picking up. The way it sounds is that you think that people are either

A.) born straight, gay, or both

or

B.) born them, and are gay or straight. If that makes sense

You could put it that way.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:51 pm

blackstar wrote:
MarshallEMG wrote:
blackstar wrote:
MarshallEMG wrote:
So you think everyone should be gay?

Who said that?

Well portrait disagrees with axe saying that homosexuality is wrong which must mean he thinks homosexuality is right.

That doesn't even make f***ing sense. Now you are being stupid. I think its perfectly ok and normal to be gay, lesbian, transgender, straight, whatever. None of them are right, none of them are wrong they are all ok. None of them hurt anyone else so why would they be wrong?

I don't understand why transgender is grouped in with that. I mean, you are obviously born that way. But the thing about homosexuality is that it can't be proven if you were or were not born that way
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:53 pm

I just don't see how you could possibly buy that homosexuality is a sin, when it affects absolutely no one but those inherently involved.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:53 pm

Axeforhire wrote:
VacuousReality wrote:
X is not necessarily proven by Y, therefore X is not true does not follow.
Also I saw a strawman. I'm not going to get into logical fallacies though because that alienates a lot of people from being considerate of another person's ideas.

I'm staying away from the science stuff and just going by simple social example. I find it highly implausible that someone would drive themselves to severe social stigma, severe physical pain, death, or worse...just so they can enjoy sexual attraction to members of the same gender. I find it highly implausible that there would be a massive conspiracy among people who are gay to behave and communicate as if it were a choice.

And then why someone would care, as I said, it's a matter of life circumstances. We go through different circumstances. Some of us would be more aware of the things that happen and some of us would be less aware. Personally I can easily see why one would care so much from my little experience with similar things and simply being observant and putting myself in others' shoes (which I always do).

Also I'm not discussing the religion side of this. If you find homosexuality disagreeable because of your religion I really don't mind, as long as you honestly believe it. I'm discussing the choice and care factors.

Well, the way i see it is it's a choice, and that's because of my religion. If you believe a gay person was born that way it's fine. Neither can really be proven, unless of course we find some genetic or biological way to determine it.

But it started to come to insults when I said I thought it was a choice. Apparently I'm not allowed t believe that. And the reason we are discussing religion is because that's the reason I believe it's a choice, then this portraitofsanity character starts insulting me

If that's the case then I won't argue at all unless you are willing to debate interpretations of religion or religion itself. I was under the impression that you only believed homosexuality was wrong because of your religion.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:54 pm

A lot of people group that together and say that I obviously have a choice to think that way or not and consider it a psychological condition or a disease even.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:54 pm

Who cares whether a guy would rather stick his penis in a vagina or an asshole?

Not a basis for hate, really.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:56 pm

PortraitOfSanity wrote:
I just don't see how you could possibly buy that homosexuality is a sin, when it affects absolutely no one but those inherently involved.

Go ahead and bash me for this, but God created sex between a man and a woman, and it was meant to only be used when a man and a woman were deeply in love and ready to reproduce, not for everyone to just to go around and stick their dick in whatever they want
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:56 pm

WEll, it's like anything. if society is that way and my religion doesn't tell me it's wrong, why would I have a reason to think it's wrong. It comes down to morals. We can all agree that killing is wrong, but how do you know homosexuality is wrong? My religion tells me it's wrong, but If you don't subscribe to a religion I can see how you would think it was ok.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:58 pm

So, do you sacrifice bulls often?

I don't have long hair, how shall I be killed?
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:59 pm

blackstar wrote:
A lot of people group that together and say that I obviously have a choice to think that way or not and consider it a psychological condition or a disease even.

Well I definitely don't consider that wrong. I mean, I believe that God made people so if he made you that way than it is ok. Like homosexuality. If it was proven that god made people to be homosexual or not, I would question that part of the bible. But since there is no proof or evidence, I base my opinions off of what my religion tells me
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:03 pm

Wow, so he made me in a body that I don't associate with and made a large portion of my life a living hell well that explains why I don't like religion. So if I throw it out there that I'm transgender and associate myself as a lesbian does that mean I'm no longer ok?
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:05 pm

blackstar wrote:
Wow, so he made me in a body that I don't associate with and made a large portion of my life a living hell well that explains why I don't like religion. So if I throw it out there that I'm transgender and associate myself as a lesbian does that mean I'm no longer ok?

No, it doesnt mean your automatically a bad person. Its the same as every other sin. It can be forgiven. Its not like just because your gay your going to rot in hell
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:05 pm

Isn't pointing out the hypocrisy of Christianity fun?
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:06 pm

blackstar wrote:
Wow, so he made me in a body that I don't associate with and made a large portion of my life a living hell well that explains why I don't like religion. So if I throw it out there that I'm transgender and associate myself as a lesbian does that mean I'm no longer ok?

nah, that's cool.

Religious people will be religious I guess.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:07 pm

And ignorant Athiest fuckholes will be ignorant Athiest fuckholes
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:08 pm

Okay okay come on guys. If you're going to say something put some ideas behind it and take out the insult part of it. Keep in mind this discussion isn't even supposed to be allowed but if it can be conducted maturely and without insults it might slip.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:09 pm

blackstar wrote:
Wow, so he made me in a body that I don't associate with and made a large portion of my life a living hell well that explains why I don't like religion. So if I throw it out there that I'm transgender and associate myself as a lesbian does that mean I'm no longer ok?

you know what, I don't really know. I understand that you've had a lot of pain in your life because of that, but I want to assure you I don't think anything's wrong with it and i wouldn't ever make fun of someone like that.

You know I've had trouble with religion, and was almost to the point of being an atheist for awhile, but I'm stilla believer. I think God does things like this to test us maybe. I don't really know. But the biggest reason I still believe in a higher deity is because I have a problem looking at the beauty and complexity of this world and thinking it was created by aliens like Richard Dawkins said
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:10 pm

VacuousReality wrote:
Okay okay come on guys. If you're going to say something put some ideas behind it and take out the insult part of it. Keep in mind this discussion isn't even supposed to be allowed but if it can be conducted maturely and without insults it might slip.

We just need to drop the religion part if there all going to bash Christianity
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:10 pm

Yeah I don't want to have to lock this, because it's interesting. Try to avoid insulting people please. I know I've made a few insults, but lets try to keep it clean so we can work through this and have a decent discussion
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:13 pm

What he probably meant was this:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=rock-and-roil-meteorites

On a more important note: I wouldn't care much what other people in a broad category think if I was considering adopting a philosophical position that coincided with such. I know examples of people being nonreligious for such reasons etc.


Last edited by VacuousReality on Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:15 pm

As I've stated before I think there is a supernatural force but I really don't believe it has anything to do with us. But whatever floats your boat I'm totally done with this debate for real this time. And on the religion part really all you can say is I believe and we can say I don't. So I agree we should drop it because it is a mute point.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:16 pm

VacuousReality wrote:
What he probably meant was this:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=rock-and-roil-meteorites

yea, theres no way in proving that theory though. Its not like they can shoot a meteor at the earth and record the results
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:19 pm

No way to prove your theory either so.
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:19 pm

There are no proofs in science so to ask for such expresses a misconception of what science is and how it works. I don't feel like going through the whole run through of how it works at the moment...feeling kind of lazy.

Never mind I'm not going to do the edit.


Last edited by VacuousReality on Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: That Metal Show & Religion/Morals Discussion   Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:20 pm

Actually the Bible....In case you didnt know all the stories were all witnessed and recorded...
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