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PostSubject: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:56 am

Exactly what it is. State some philosophies and discuss them with other members.
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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:13 am

Oh my God really? I started drafting this last night (or this morning really, 3:00am) and it was going to be called "The Philosophy Thread." I kid you not. I had a bunch of rules drafted out too. In a text file right now.
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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:15 am

Spoiler:
 

And I wasn't done...was going to start things off. Maybe I'll do that here.
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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:21 am

I'll edit it for you lol.
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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:22 am

Did by any chance you get the idea from Axe's post on the clan? That's how I got the idea.
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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:24 am

I had Philosophy today lol.
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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:39 am

I have a topic but I'm trying to understand some text before I bring it up. Some how I feel it relates a lot to a perspective I hold.
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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:45 am

I also study this.

Utilitarianism- Always act in a way that will produce the greatest good for the most amount of people.
Good use of this theory
America has just been bombed. We fight back to ensure it does not happen to us again.
Bad us of this theory
I am going to punch Jim in the face and put it on Youtube. Only one person will be harmed and everyone will enjoy watching the video.

When people exercise their rights that go against the public good, these guys get pissed off. These are the kind of people who are in action movies. They usually try to save the world and kill tons of bad guys and say "Fuck your civil rights" before killing someone

Ethics- Do what's morally correct.
Good- Buy lemonaide
Bad- Buy Nintendo Wii

Deontology- The theory that disregards consequences of actions, it focuses on our duties as humans.
Good use of this theory
You see someone getting beat up. You attack the person to save the one in trouble
Bad use of this theory
The Jew Hunter comes to your house and asks if your hiding Jews. You say yes because its your duty to be truthful to officers.

Aristotle's golden mean- Always take the medium path
This example always wants you to follow the middle ground in situations.
You get punched in the face by some guy
The extreme route- Kill him
The low route- Do nothing
Middle ground- Hit him back

Categorical Imperative- Always treat people as a end and not a mean. When a certain situation occurs you should always act a certain way. I connect with this theory.
It follows a formula.
If P then Q
P
Therefore Q

If a homeless man wishes you happy new years in march you should run
A homeless man is wishing you happy new years in march
Therefore you should run

Also
If P Not Q
P
Therefore Not Q

If a gorilla is in a tree its not a computer
A gorilla is in a tree
Therefore its not a computer

Divine Command Theory- God decides what is right or wrong
No idea how to give an example for this properly.

Lastly, this is an image of a panopticon that has been discussed by Utilitarians

This is a guard tower in the middle of a prison. This way the prisonerss never know when they are, or are not being watched. This relates to the way that society is subtly shaping us, we never know how to act as we don't know who's watching, and if someone is watching, what are the implications of them viewing you?

I had another point to say but I can't remember it anymore. I'll stop now

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Last edited by breakyoudown on Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:48 am

I like utilitarianism, although retaliation to protect oneself isn't always going to be the good application of the theory. If I were not a selfish being I would be a strict utilitarian.
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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:51 am

There are two other branches
Act Ult- Always act in a way that will generate the most good
Which is pretty much the same as the normal one
Rule Ult- Follow a certain rule that will generate the most good

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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:53 am

One way I've put it is like this...
1. You are 100% selfish and perfectly reasonable.
2. Accept as a given that you will live the life of every sentient being in the present and future.
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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:56 am

I didn't represent the Categorical Imperative very well
But it is the opposite of Deontology
As it focuses on consequences and doesn't focus on duties

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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:00 am

OH! I remember it now. An addition
Categorical Imperative- Act in a way that the general rule behind your actions can consistently be referred as a universal law.

So basically, you need to think before you do something. If you kill yourself, think about universal law, if everyone killed themselves that is very bad. If you decide to be polite to kind people and rude to mean people, and if everyone did this....Good things happen. I think. Its 5am I'm going to bed lol

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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:53 am

What do you think about the lack of rigor in applying utilitarianism? That's one thing that bothers me about it. I'll give an example...pain vs. depression. Both are generally undesirable, but in what way can they be scaled to each other? One might be inclined to say they can't be, but then if I asked you whether you rather have your finger pricked or become mildly depressed for a week, you would probably choose to have your finger pricked. Yet in another hypothetical where things appear more even it might not be so easy to decide and the notion that one is "more unpreferred" might start to become fuzzy.

It comes as no surprise...it's the world of the subjective.
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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:49 pm

Not sure what your asking

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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:11 pm

Another class is teaching me about the panopticon! This is so exiciting

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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:15 pm

breakyoudown wrote:
Another class is teaching me about the panopticon! This is so exiciting
I love this theory. Jeremy Bentham came up with it and then Michel Foucoult worked it into theory and it is super interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:28 pm

Yeah, we applied it to surveillance culture
The fact that nobody cares about privacy online
They say they do, but nobody reads Terms and Agreements

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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:13 pm

I'd jump in, but I don't know very much about these theories of how to live. I prefer the more abstract approach, the "why?" for the "how?"

But I'll try my best. The ones I know about most are the simple common law rules, such as the Golden Rule, which states the very simple tenet "do unto others as you would have others do unto you." Everyone has heard that though, since it has been adopted by many christian denominations. The other is the greater good, which has been explained above, which plainly states "do what is beneficial to the larger number of people." Of course, rules like these are all flawed because, as byd showed, there are situations in which the use of a certain ethical principle does not have the best outcome.
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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:00 pm

breakyoudown wrote:
Not sure what your asking

How do you determine what the "greater good" is?
I was discussing that.
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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:04 pm

VacuousReality wrote:
breakyoudown wrote:
Not sure what your asking

How do you determine what the "greater good" is?
I was discussing that.
I didn't mention the greater good. Rather the greatest good for the most people
So basically base your actions and make a choice that helps others.
The greater good is a bit of a joke

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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:05 pm

I wasn't aware there was another "greater good" but now that I think about it I might know what you're talking about. That's what I meant anyways.
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PostSubject: Re: The Philosophy Thread   Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:07 pm

"Fear is the strongest and oldest emotion of mankind, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is the fear of the unknown."

HP Lovecraft's famous quote. Discuss how fear has changed the world around us to shape it as it is today (through cowardice, different forms of religion, government, etc).
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