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What religion are you?
Christian
19%
 19% [ 4 ]
Jewish
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Atheist
48%
 48% [ 10 ]
Other (because I'm too lazy to list 50 religions)
33%
 33% [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 21
 

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D-Lor
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:36 am

I hope that since you haven't addressed anything I've said in awhile, that means you agree?

Axe wrote:
And I didn't say you weren't spiritual, I just said it appears that I look at things on a more spiritual level, if that makes sense.

Um...

"...i am spiritual and you are not."

Yes you did, haha.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:47 am

Spirituality is for pussies, it's all about ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:00 am

Taxer666 wrote:
ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD


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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:14 am

this thread is all tl;dr

I agree with the above post^
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:35 pm

Taxer is right.

And no, I'm just dropping the conversation because we aren't getting anywhere. I've agreed with a few things you've said though. And I didn't mean that statement quite so literally.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:52 pm

The Hypnotoad sounds very promising me thinks.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:11 pm

Axe wrote:
Taxer is right.

And no, I'm just dropping the conversation because we aren't getting anywhere. I've agreed with a few things you've said though. And I didn't mean that statement quite so literally.

Well, it's not really going anywhere because you haven't really addressed anything that has been said. You just picked out a sentence or two, made a huge sweeping statement/judgement, and ignored everything else. But whatever, it's not important. I'm cool with ending it as long as I feel like you don't still misunderstand me/my ideals.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:39 pm

Fuck.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:33 pm

D-Lor wrote:
Axe wrote:
Taxer is right.

And no, I'm just dropping the conversation because we aren't getting anywhere. I've agreed with a few things you've said though. And I didn't mean that statement quite so literally.

Well, it's not really going anywhere because you haven't really addressed anything that has been said. You just picked out a sentence or two, made a huge sweeping statement/judgement, and ignored everything else. But whatever, it's not important. I'm cool with ending it as long as I feel like you don't still misunderstand me/my ideals.

I adressed everything you said, except the last part because you intend on arguing my beliefs rather than debating them. There is no right or wrong answer because nothing can be proven. Science is an invention of man, as is religion. It all coul be bullshit.

And you failed to address many of my points.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:36 pm

D-Lor wrote:
Axe wrote:
No that's not the answer. I'm talking about a complex, meaningful answer. What is the purpose of one feeling love, hate, etc. There must be a purpose, it's not just random.


And this discussion is entirely because i am spiritual and you are not. I want to think of things as meaningful, and find a reason for things. But others, like yourself (from what I've gathered) are content with only the knowledge of how some things happen. If that makes sense. I much prefer to find the greatest meaning or purpose behind things, with the big one of course being why we exist, but going down to little things that seem trivial but could have greater meaning. This is why I'm interested in psychology. My spiritualism trasncends Christianity, and I like to learn about theories regarding dreams, out of body experiences, etc. My distaste for science is mearly because it doesn't answer the questions that I want answered. If it does in the future I will like it but I think it's extremely unlikely that something based on physical things could explain philosophical things.

Again, you can research yourself if you really want a more complex answer. I promise you will find better, more detailed answers. Bio-psychology will give you the answers you want.

But you have the wrong idea about me.
You don't know nearly enough about me and my beliefs to tell me that I am not spiritual. That is just flat-out wrong. Most of the topics we discussed (death, emotion, growing plants) are just more explainable by science than you are making it out to be. Especially death and plants. You can't just ignore the science behind it and say "no, I look for the greater spiritual meaning behind it." That's really what it sounds like you're doing. Now, the psychological reasoning is different, but it's still not religious, and psychology is still considered a science. Me and you both are more interested in the "why did I have this dream? Why am I feeling this way?" But again, this is still science. Psychology is a science. Granted, it is a soft-science, but it is still science. When I defend science, I am defending all sciences, not just the hard-sciences (which is what you seem to think I am doing). Yes, we have been pretty much only discussing hard-science explanations, but honestly I'm more interested in the soft-science (psychological) explanations, which I would be glad to discuss more. The problem, of course, is that the psychological affects and explanations of these things is much more personal.

I hope I cleared that up a little. The thing is, up until this point, you have only expressed distaste in science. Psychology is a science, so I figured you were bashing psychology as well. You only really mentioned "spiritual explanation," so I took that to be religious explanation, not psychology reasoning. So we may actually be in agreement more than you think if I got this cleared up correctly.

For the record (speaking of psychology), I am/will be a psychology major. And more relevant to our discussion, the head of the psychology department has a PhD in bio-psychology, which really analysis the psychology and neuroscience of the brain. It really ties what we've been talking about together (the physical and psychological explanations to things like emotion).

Also, be careful who you tell "my spiritualism transcends Christianity" to. You may offend a lot of Christians, haha.

Death is not at all explainable by science. Science can tell you if something is dead, but it doesn't explain anything about it. Like where the actual person, or spirit if you will, goes. Or if there is a spirit. Or why we can't revive people, as hard as we try. And I'm not talking about elecrecuting people to get their hearts going. We can create life, and we can take life, but we sure as hell can recreate life.

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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:38 pm

And you are also forgetting that my computer is dead and that I have minimal computer access, so I'm not going to spend all of my internet time arguing about my beliefs with you.

See that's my biggest problem with atheists. Many of them cry about how religion is bad because no one can accept the other persons beliefs, but it's usually the athiest that calls other people out for their beliefs.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:46 pm

Anyway, back on topic. My religion is really hard to describe, but it's basically concepts taken from a few different religions formed into my own eclectic religion. The main one is christianity. I believe in Jesus as the savior, God and heaven and hell, but I think there's much more that is not really taught. I'm also fairly indifferent about God. I don't like the fact that the bible says you automatically go to hell if you don't accept Jesus. Well what about all of the people who have never even heard of Jesus? So basically I live my life by my own personal code, accept jesus, and if God doesn't want me in Heaven then that's his choice. I take a very pantheistic approach to life as well. I think god can be found all around us, if you look. Such as the intricacy of nature and the ecosystem. That's a big one for me. I'm a very spiritual person, and I think lot's of non human things have spirits just by the way the world works.

It probably doesn't make much sense, but that's the best way I can explain it.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:31 pm

I believe there is no God, and if there is, we must destroy it if possible. Only then can we be free from our shackles as a mortal species.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:05 am

I go with a naturalistic perspective on things because it makes a lot more sense to me than a spiritual or religious perspective. I think that's where we differ the most Axe...I just find things like evolution to be very concrete and detailed, but simple and compelling at the same time. It's as simple as a population spreading the width of a continent, and then becoming suited to the different areas of the continent. I mean that's just one example. I would never understand it though if I questioned the whole puzzle each time I looked at a puzzle piece. I see if the puzzle pieces make sense, and if they fit together. The whole image in my mind fits together very well, and continues to fit together better the more I learn.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:11 am

I'm not quite sure where I stand on evolution. I mean, it has been proven on a micro level. And that makes sense. You put a creature in a different environment, and it adapts. But macro evolution is still kinda out there for me, and I'm not sure if that's something I think makes sense. It's plausible, but at the same time it seems farfetched.

I also take a few humanistic aspects into my personal beliefs. I still believe in a higher deity, but I think there are moral standards and ethics that should be followed by all people regardless of religious beliefs. So it doesn't really make it part of my religion, just part of my general philosophy about life.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:14 am

I watched this space show and these scientists were going on and on about our own evolution which I consider fact right now. There are life forms on the most dangerous remote places on earth...wayyyy under the sea where there is NO light (for a long time we thought every creature needed light to survive) and even in ACID pits. That means, its very possible for life to be on other planets in what seems like environments where there cant be life.

People somehow think that life has to resemble what we know on earth, by needing the sun and breathing the air. It's so EASY that over the billions of years, we evolved...we are completely random! This is not religion but it kind of is...no greater diety had to exsist to create us. There is life out there, even the Pope's minions have admitted that it would be stupid to not think so since there are an endless amount of galaxies, plenty like our own.

Religion was a sort of evolution as well. At one point, the human beings on this planet were Pagan and that was accepted. Then suddenly, Pagans were witches and their temples had to be burned. Christianity was accepted because of...well, pure chance of who was in charge of great spans of land. The other main religions popped up around the same time as well. Many Pagan symbols and stories were just taken and added into the religions of the time and somehow, they have prevailed to this day. Why? If you are optimistic, you could say because they have good morals and teach humans to live in harmony...or at least tell them to. If you are pessimistic, you would say because religious leaders have always wanted to hold power and basically, people are afraid of death and need comforting.

So basically..I believe we are here because it just so happened to occur. I'm positive there are other species of life that question the same thing and have their own, very different reasons as to why they are alive and what happens when they die.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:00 pm

I think this thread has accomplished a lot.
I now know that I can make as many jew jokes as I want

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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:20 am

I think this thread has become ad naseum.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:17 am

I think it has become ad retardium
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:18 am

Taxer speaks Latin.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:21 am

So does Demon Burger
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:38 am

I originally wasn't going to continue this because I get the feeling that you aren't reading everything I post, but I decided that I want to respond. Way too much misinterpretation.

Axe wrote:
D-Lor wrote:
Axe wrote:
Taxer is right.

And no, I'm just dropping the conversation because we aren't getting anywhere. I've agreed with a few things you've said though. And I didn't mean that statement quite so literally.

Well, it's not really going anywhere because you haven't really addressed anything that has been said. You just picked out a sentence or two, made a huge sweeping statement/judgement, and ignored everything else. But whatever, it's not important. I'm cool with ending it as long as I feel like you don't still misunderstand me/my ideals.

I adressed everything you said, except the last part because you intend on arguing my beliefs rather than debating them. There is no right or wrong answer because nothing can be proven. Science is an invention of man, as is religion. It all coul be bullshit.

And you failed to address many of my points.

You absolutely did not address everything I have said. At best, you picked out one statement and responded to that.

You need to stop inferring things that aren't there. I am having this discussion with you because I am interested in your beliefs, and by challenging them I learn more. I am not trying to change you.
The difference between science and religion is that religion is based on faith. Science (both hard and soft) is the complete opposite. It's statements like "[science] could all be bullshit" that make me say things like "that is ignorant to what science is." Again, I'm not trying to attack you. I'm not calling you stupid. But science is based in empirical evidence. Religion is based on faith.

Please point out to me the points I didn't address.

Axe wrote:
D-Lor wrote:
Axe wrote:
No that's not the answer. I'm talking about a complex, meaningful answer. What is the purpose of one feeling love, hate, etc. There must be a purpose, it's not just random.


And this discussion is entirely because i am spiritual and you are not. I want to think of things as meaningful, and find a reason for things. But others, like yourself (from what I've gathered) are content with only the knowledge of how some things happen. If that makes sense. I much prefer to find the greatest meaning or purpose behind things, with the big one of course being why we exist, but going down to little things that seem trivial but could have greater meaning. This is why I'm interested in psychology. My spiritualism trasncends Christianity, and I like to learn about theories regarding dreams, out of body experiences, etc. My distaste for science is mearly because it doesn't answer the questions that I want answered. If it does in the future I will like it but I think it's extremely unlikely that something based on physical things could explain philosophical things.

Again, you can research yourself if you really want a more complex answer. I promise you will find better, more detailed answers. Bio-psychology will give you the answers you want.

But you have the wrong idea about me.
You don't know nearly enough about me and my beliefs to tell me that I am not spiritual. That is just flat-out wrong. Most of the topics we discussed (death, emotion, growing plants) are just more explainable by science than you are making it out to be. Especially death and plants. You can't just ignore the science behind it and say "no, I look for the greater spiritual meaning behind it." That's really what it sounds like you're doing. Now, the psychological reasoning is different, but it's still not religious, and psychology is still considered a science. Me and you both are more interested in the "why did I have this dream? Why am I feeling this way?" But again, this is still science. Psychology is a science. Granted, it is a soft-science, but it is still science. When I defend science, I am defending all sciences, not just the hard-sciences (which is what you seem to think I am doing). Yes, we have been pretty much only discussing hard-science explanations, but honestly I'm more interested in the soft-science (psychological) explanations, which I would be glad to discuss more. The problem, of course, is that the psychological affects and explanations of these things is much more personal.

I hope I cleared that up a little. The thing is, up until this point, you have only expressed distaste in science. Psychology is a science, so I figured you were bashing psychology as well. You only really mentioned "spiritual explanation," so I took that to be religious explanation, not psychology reasoning. So we may actually be in agreement more than you think if I got this cleared up correctly.

For the record (speaking of psychology), I am/will be a psychology major. And more relevant to our discussion, the head of the psychology department has a PhD in bio-psychology, which really analysis the psychology and neuroscience of the brain. It really ties what we've been talking about together (the physical and psychological explanations to things like emotion).

Also, be careful who you tell "my spiritualism transcends Christianity" to. You may offend a lot of Christians, haha.

Death is not at all explainable by science. Science can tell you if something is dead, but it doesn't explain anything about it. Like where the actual person, or spirit if you will, goes. Or if there is a spirit. Or why we can't revive people, as hard as we try. And I'm not talking about elecrecuting people to get their hearts going. We can create life, and we can take life, but we sure as hell can recreate life.


The afterlife is not the same thing as death, like you seem to think.
Whether or not there is a spirit is a question that neither science nor religion can answer. To pretend that religion has a better answer simply because it has an answer is flawed thinking. The truth is that religion knows nothing in regards to things like this. If you chose to believe that there is an afterlife, that is your faith. However, I would like to think that all faith is based on some level of reasoning, so I ask you: why do you believe in an afterlife or spirit? What evidence can you provide me?
As far as reviving people, that is absolutely something science can and does answer. Again, just because you don't know the answer doesn't mean the answer doesn't exist.

Axe wrote:
And you are also forgetting that my computer is dead and that I have minimal computer access, so I'm not going to spend all of my internet time arguing about my beliefs with you.

See that's my biggest problem with atheists. Many of them cry about how religion is bad because no one can accept the other persons beliefs, but it's usually the athiest that calls other people out for their beliefs.

I guess I did forget that, because I honestly can't remember where you told me this.

Again, this is you inferring something that isn't there. I'm not attacking your beliefs, I'm giving you counterpoints.

Axe wrote:
Anyway, back on topic. My religion is really hard to describe, but it's basically concepts taken from a few different religions formed into my own eclectic religion. The main one is christianity. I believe in Jesus as the savior, God and heaven and hell, but I think there's much more that is not really taught. I'm also fairly indifferent about God. I don't like the fact that the bible says you automatically go to hell if you don't accept Jesus. Well what about all of the people who have never even heard of Jesus? So basically I live my life by my own personal code, accept jesus, and if God doesn't want me in Heaven then that's his choice. I take a very pantheistic approach to life as well. I think god can be found all around us, if you look. Such as the intricacy of nature and the ecosystem. That's a big one for me. I'm a very spiritual person, and I think lot's of non human things have spirits just by the way the world works.

It probably doesn't make much sense, but that's the best way I can explain it.

Why do you believe Jesus is the savior? What evidence do you have to support that there is a god (more importantly that it is the Christian god specifically)? What evidence do you have for heaven or hell? I'm not asking to attack your beliefs, I'm asking because I want to know. That's it. When you say you believe in something, I assume there is a reason. It would be ridiculous to just chose something for no reason.

So what is your reasoning for believing in these things? Why believe in one god? Why couldn't it have been technologically advanced aliens? Why assume that if it was a god, that the god still exists or cares?

If you acknowledge that there is no way of truly knowing if there is a god, why do you believe in a god? Personally, I do not believe in a god because I cannot know if it is true or not. There is no limit to the amount of things that could have caused our existence. Why should I close my mind by saying is was some specific god?
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:22 pm

cuz maybe he likes the idea of god. duh...

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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:57 pm

LOR wrote:
cuz maybe he likes the idea of god. duh...

I like the idea of god too, but that doesn't make it any more believable. I also like the idea of flying, but I'm not going to jump off a building. I also like the idea of dragons, magic, wizards, and heaven. But I don't believe any of those things to be real.

It just doesn't make sense to me to believe in something solely because you like the idea and someone told you it's real. That's being gullible. I'm not saying Axe is like this, as he hasn't responded yet.

Let me reiterate again that there is a difference between what I know, and what I believe. I do not know if god is real or not. However, I do not believe that god is real. I do not believe because I have not been provided with sufficient evidence. I do not know because the idea of god is beyond our realm of existence. Of course, that is also assuming that there even is a realm of existence beyond our own. It's complicated.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:16 am

dragons are real

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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:28 am

LOR wrote:
dragons are real

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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:15 am

Religion and spirituality are like glasses which one can view the world with. They might not have a direct reason they think the glasses are the right ones to use, but they do so because with them on things make more sense.

It's the same case with me and naturalism. I view the world as spiritless because that's the way it makes the most sense to me. If you asked me how I knew the world was spiritless though I'd tell you it's an improper question since I don't know the world is spiritless. I view it as such regardless.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:46 am

Taxer666 wrote:
LOR wrote:
dragons are real


thats dumb.

this is a dragon


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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:05 am

I made a thread about my broken computer. It's titled update drom Axe. It got like three replies or something like that so it's likely that you missed it.

And I honestly don't have the time to go through and point out every little thing you might have missed, because it's unimportant. And I tried to pick out your main points and address them, but I suppose I may have picked out the wrong points to address.

Oh, but one thing I noticed that I want to address when you said the afterlife isn't the same as death. It's obviously not, but it's about what happens after you die. So it's directly involved with the concept and mystery of death. The afterlife could be absolutely nothing, or something no one has ever imagined. I just meant the concept of what happens after death.

Also, my beliefs are my own. I've tried to stress this. Obviously I was influenced by my parents and the way I was raised, but my parents thoroughly disagree with my belief system so I obviously don't follow blindly.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:35 am

Well, when it comes to the afterlife, it all comes down to the same answer: we do not know, we can not know. Since we can not know and I have not been provided with sufficient evidence to support that there is an afterlife (and there is sufficient evidence to support that there is not a conscious afterlife), I chose not to believe in an afterlife. However, to reiterate, this is my belief, which is very different from what I know. There may very well be an afterlife. I do not know.

I understand that your beliefs are your own, but I just want to understand why you believe what you believe. The "Putting faith in its place video" really nailed my opinion on this. We can not possibly say what specifically exists in a realm of existence separate from our own. There can be any number of things there. Any number of things with any number of qualities. Any attempt to say what exists in that realm is pulling from the unknowable or the impossible. So, without evidence, there is literally no reason that I can think of to believe in such things. That's why I want to know your reasons. Please don't take it as an attack or an attempt to change your views.

VacuousReality wrote:
Religion and spirituality are like glasses which one can view the world with. They might not have a direct reason they think the glasses are the right ones to use, but they do so because with them on things make more sense.

It's the same case with me and naturalism. I view the world as spiritless because that's the way it makes the most sense to me. If you asked me how I knew the world was spiritless though I'd tell you it's an improper question since I don't know the world is spiritless. I view it as such regardless.

Would it be an improper question if I asked why you believe the world is spiritless? Or, why does that make the most sense to you?
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:29 am

It would not be.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:17 pm

My personal faith stems from a few different tracks. For one, it's complexity. I know you hear that all the time, especially from people trying to change the beliefs of others. But for me, I have a hard time believing that such a perfect ecosystem and a perfect cycle of life could just randomly happen. Of course it's possible, but by simply looking at how complex even a tiny organism is it naturally makes me believe in SOME form of God. Although that doesn't specifically make me lean towards one religion or another.

The next is the way I was raised. I was not raised in a religious family, but it was a christian family. And being such, I grew to believe such things and it has increased my faith. But I do not believe in strictly what I was taught. I sometimes wish I would have grown up in an environment where I wasn't exposed to any religion (as to provoke my natural beliefs) but you can't change things like that, and now I feel a sort of connection with the religion.

A third is experiences I have had, mainly with the supernatural. Although this is difficult to explain. I have never talked to God, but I feel like I have indirectly. It's all the way I think though. I've also had some out of body experiences and such which have effectively strengthened my belief in supernatural entities.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:47 am

Fair enough. All I wanted to know, I suppose. I could continue the discussion, but it's fine.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:19 pm

Metal made me a devil-worshiping heathen
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:37 pm

Angels and devils are not real in my mind. Either are ghosts or psychics or Lochness.

There may be other dimensions though. New physics directed theories and mathematical equations are on their way to convincing me.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:43 pm

This thread is full of fail...

Needs more Jew jokes imho.
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