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LOR
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PostSubject: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 12:15 am

this is just a general trend ive been noticing among many metal bands across all subgenres. the guitar tone i think is actually getting progressively shittier. this may just be me being a guitar nerd, but you dont need a complete absence of mid range frequencis to sound "metal" and "brutal". guitars with scooped mids out the asshole sound like they did in fact come out of an asshole. This is dissapointing me becuase im hearing good bands with good music but i get disgusted becuase the guitars sound like hissy assballs shit poop. MIDS ARE ESSENTIAL TO MESHING WELL WITHIN A BAND!!!. they give presence to the guitars and are actually reveal the guitars actual tone. the guitars role in a band sonically, is to cover the midrange. having just bass and treble shit is just plain garbage. im seeing it EVERYWHERE and i just had to say something becuase its just getting really annoying. many of the recordings we all listen to would sound infinitley fuller and more awesome if whoever was working the guitar tone decided to actaully turn the middle knob on the amp up at least halfway. there are parts in some songs where im expecting the song to finally explode essentially with the first entrance of the whole band with distorted guitars, and then the part happens, and i hear this pathetic noteless static spewing forth from the speakers trying to sound immense, and at that point, i want to toss my computer out the window, run into town and hit the first person i see and blame him for the injustice to music i just heard. sorry for ranting. it had to be said otherwise i might have exploded.

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 12:23 am

EMG's are the most generic sounding pickups ever. I use my GFS pickups and I get a pretty unique tone I believe out of them. They sound deep and sad. Anyway, I am tired of all the generic BR00TAL DEATHCOREZ tones, it very rarely sounds interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 12:30 am

Depends on what style it is. But as a production major I agree mid's are quite essential.
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 12:35 am

link wrote:
EMG's are the most generic sounding pickups ever. I use my GFS pickups and I get a pretty unique tone I believe out of them. They sound deep and sad. Anyway, I am tired of all the generic BR00TAL DEATHCOREZ tones, it very rarely sounds interesting.

i dont beleive its the pickups that are the problem. its just the general eq. i use emgs on one of my guitars and as long as i eq right it sits fine in the mix. but i agree with the core tones you mentioned. for some reason i think one of the qualifications of "core" music is shitty tone. i have yet to hear good tone out of core bands. i like protest the hero (they got some core going on in there) but the guitar tone on kezia= shit.

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 12:36 am

I know what you mean, and it pisses me off. If it's any compensation. here are some bands I think have amazing tone.













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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 12:38 am

Pickups DO matter alot, to me at least. I have grown to just use the natural tone of the guitar and just add a little bit behind it. I have emgs in one of my guitars too, and it does sound generic. I have been looking for a good distortion pedal for a while though, I use a digitech death metal pedal and a enhancer. I also know what you mean though LOR
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 12:42 am

@taxer im giving you a +rep for understanding. but mostly becuase of that song about the ukrainian insurgent army (out of the other examples i atcually thought it had the worst tone out of the ones you showed me- others were good though. carcass sounded like it had the perfect tone for its style) but im ukrainian and so i greatly enjoy that you know of something that has to do with ukraine! beer UKRAINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 12:46 am

Cool cats, one of my friends at school is Ukrainian (Well, Russian but he was born in the Ukraine)
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 12:52 am

link wrote:
Pickups DO matter alot, to me at least. I have grown to just use the natural tone of the guitar and just add a little bit behind it. I have emgs in one of my guitars too, and it does sound generic. I have been looking for a good distortion pedal for a while though, I use a digitech death metal pedal and a enhancer. I also know what you mean though LOR

im not disagreeing that pickups dont mater- they definitely do. Its just that what ive been hearing didnt seem to be a problem with pickups but more of a in general bad tone thing. pickups serve different purposes. For hi-gain stuff you got the seymour duncan stuff, the emgs and whatnot. My gutiar came with emg 81 and 85 and i never felt the need to switch them out. they work great. also- a general tip. DO NOT TRUST YOUR TONE TO SOLID STATE DISTORTION PEDALS. at least try to keep your options open. you may get lucky by finding a gem but the real good stuff is in the amps. I know its alot to go out and buy a tube amp but thats where the real tone is. I use a metal zone just for practice and i know i will never get a an actual decent tone out of it for anything other than practice. I once bought this 200 pedal (forget what it was called- looked awesome and it was huge with built in tubes)- still not as good as my peavey valveking and i returned it. If you want more distortion and you already have a decent amp just buy an overdrive pedal and put it before it. tubescreamers i hear work wonders. i use zakk wyldes pedal but i guess thats just preference.

peavey makes a combo amp valveking that used to be pretty freakin cheap. vox made a hybrid tube solid state amp that wasnt that bad. if you are looking for pedals though i would suggest stearing clear of digitech and even boss for that matter. they just sound unnatural and poopy. good luck on your search. its one that never ends and is an extreme pain in the ass.

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 12:55 am

Well, I think distortion pedals can be great but only when used as a boost. The distortion on the pedals themselves usually sound like shit, however, if you have a good high end amp, low distortion on the pedal can help you saturate your tone at a much lower volume.
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 12:56 am

Exactly, I just use my amp distortion mainly. I really need a great amp, I just got this Raven 2x12 that's got good tone but not nearly enough power. I don't have the cash for a great amp either.
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 12:56 am

Taxer666 wrote:
Cool cats, one of my friends at school is Ukrainian (Well, Russian but he was born in the Ukraine)
thats awesome. i will consider him ukrainian then. Smile where was he born? also its just "ukraine" not "the ukraine" - common mistake. i forget how that all started.

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 12:59 am

Not sure where, I'll have to ask him
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 1:00 am

what i wish i had for amps would be some deizel head, and orange thunderverb. and maybe a mesa for kicks. that would be awesome... i agree with the distortion pedal thing being used as a gain boost- thats usually done with overdrive pedals though- less noise i think. can always buy a noise suppressor though

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 1:03 am

Taxer666 wrote:
Not sure where, I'll have to ask him

k sweet. i visited a couple years ago. i went to kiev and a village called (lets see if i can spell this phonetically) lisahora. pretty much all of my dads side of the family lives there. im pretty bad at speaking the language (dont ask how i graduated ukrainian school- yes i went to ukrainian school) so there was a bit a barrier there. it was still intersting though. my uncle works there for the government getting all the scientists there that were building bombs back in the soviet era to use their skills for good stuff.

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 1:04 am

That's actually pretty interesting LOR, please tell moar.
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 1:09 am

ummmm. one of the things that i remember they got working is the worlds smallest engine. apparently they are using it for heart scannerss and stuff and they tested it on my uncle and actually found a problem with his heart. (gasp) but it will only affect him long from now but its good they caught it. ill ask around tom what else they are doing. its late right now for me. ill will post some stuff tom!!!! Smile

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 1:12 am

Sweet.





I just use my pedal as a gain enhancer, because it gets some pretty deep and distorted tone. The enhancer is just for my Xaviere, really makes it shine.
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Thu May 27, 2010 4:02 pm

if it works it works Very Happy. what i need right now is a decent cabinet or better speakers. the one i have now is pretty freakin terrible. no presence and muddy. unfortunetly i have no funds to fix this problem Sad

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Fri May 28, 2010 1:24 am

Many bands strive for a generic tone. But occasionally, you'll get a revolutionary band (or just one that's good) who has a great guitar tone.
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Fri May 28, 2010 7:09 am

the tone isnt what i would call generic. its just terrible. more closely resembling static then a guitar. when you take away all the mids thats basically what your left with when you play in a band scenario.

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Fri May 28, 2010 9:53 am

step one:

turn everything to 11
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Fri May 28, 2010 3:51 pm

why dont you just make a louder 10?

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Fri May 28, 2010 6:22 pm

Master Cthulhu wrote:
step one:

turn everything to 11

This.
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Fri May 28, 2010 7:14 pm

O yeah

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Fri May 28, 2010 7:17 pm

I think tone is all a matter of personal preference. The bad tones that are out there are either complete shit, or generic. There are many bands out there who use a generic metal tone
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Fri May 28, 2010 7:21 pm

o i totally agree. im talking about the shit tone. im not even talking about the generic tone. the tone that isnt even tone- just shit. Many people i think have the impression that scooping mids makes your guitar more heavy- false. what ends up happening is you get static in the background of the music which is actually supposed to be a guitar.

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Fri May 28, 2010 7:25 pm

But sometimes that is intentional. It all depends on the kind of music you are going for, and what your personal preference is
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Fri May 28, 2010 7:43 pm

exactly, if they were under the impression that scooping mids made stuff heavier then they would have intentioonaly done that. they would have made it so. to me its only cool if used tastefully in certain right sections where you might want the guitars to sound thin and carppy to maybe add contrast to the awesome guitar sound. their is shitty tone as it applie to peoples taste and preferences, but then their is just plain shitty tone (could be a combo of bad amps and bad eq) that is just undisputably shitty i think. ill give you something though, many of the bands also do not have the best of recording qaulity which also does not contribute much to the muckyness im speaking of. better studios and engineers can make it work better.

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sat May 29, 2010 3:03 am

LOR wrote:
better studios and engineers can make it work better.

And that's my cue =D
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sat May 29, 2010 12:14 pm

Like when Lor was recording we had a guitar tone that he described as 'dirty.' It has its specific uses and we didnt use it very often and it was used with taste. I agree w/ LOR that a lot of bands are just making their guitar tone complete shit cause it's 'moar metal'
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sat May 29, 2010 2:03 pm

blackstar wrote:
LOR wrote:
better studios and engineers can make it work better.

And that's my cue =D

cheers

Palpi of Lor wrote:
Like when Lor was recording we had a guitar tone that he described as 'dirty.' It has its specific uses and we didnt use it very often and it was used with taste. I agree w/ LOR that a lot of bands are just making their guitar tone complete shit cause it's 'moar metal'

that was different sound though. i use "dirty" to just describe slightly overdriven sounds for some reason. but the example still works i think. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sat May 29, 2010 5:52 pm

I'm a guitar player, but I don't actually know anything about guitars. I just know how to play them. I am pretty picky with guitar tones though. If a song has a bad guitar tone, even if everything else is awesome, it ruins it for me.
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:56 am

I think if the riff is good, the tone doesn't have to be great. But bad tones can be a turn off to most music for me.
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sun May 30, 2010 1:31 am

the riff can be great but if the guitar sucks it can really take away some of the magic. especially if the tone is soo bad you cant even tell if notes are actually being played. as long as the gutiar tone can give good music justice, im okay with it bascially. i just get mad when it detracts from the song. that happens to alot to me- it happens.

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sun May 30, 2010 11:40 am

I like a good raw guitar tone, but there's a line between sounding raw and just sounding like shit.
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sun May 30, 2010 5:04 pm

LOR wrote:
the riff can be great but if the guitar sucks it can really take away some of the magic. especially if the tone is soo bad you cant even tell if notes are actually being played. as long as the gutiar tone can give good music justice, im okay with it bascially. i just get mad when it detracts from the song. that happens to alot to me- it happens.

I don't know about having every note being precisely accurate because some things would lose its charm. Like would you really want to be able to hear every single tremolo picked note in Transilvanian Hunger?
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sun May 30, 2010 6:14 pm

Darkflame wrote:
I like a good raw guitar tone, but there's a line between sounding raw and just sounding like shit.
That's what I meant by that, Taxer. Some songs sound good when they're...gritty, I suppose. Alice In Chains' Man In The Box. There's a good example.
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sun May 30, 2010 6:35 pm

Taxer666 wrote:
LOR wrote:
the riff can be great but if the guitar sucks it can really take away some of the magic. especially if the tone is soo bad you cant even tell if notes are actually being played. as long as the gutiar tone can give good music justice, im okay with it bascially. i just get mad when it detracts from the song. that happens to alot to me- it happens.

I don't know about having every note being precisely accurate because some things would lose its charm. Like would you really want to be able to hear every single tremolo picked note in Transilvanian Hunger?

thats not what i meant. i didnt mean hear every individual picked note- i was referring to that EXRTEMELY bad tone that sometimes happens where it just sounds like static and pitches arent discernable. i also guess i will restate that if the tone gives justice to the song- im cool with it.

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sun May 30, 2010 6:39 pm

Yeah, as long as the tone complements the music then cool. Same thing goes with production.
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sun May 30, 2010 6:42 pm

yeah. i get REALLY pissed when i notice that the music is good and the recording is shit as well.

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sun May 30, 2010 6:59 pm

Not saying anything against the band, since I'm sure you all know how much I love them, but here's a good example of a really shitty tone where you literally can't hear a thing.

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sun May 30, 2010 9:40 pm

Wow that tone was fucking terrible I agree.
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sun May 30, 2010 9:48 pm

Best guitar tone evar:

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sun May 30, 2010 9:51 pm

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Sun May 30, 2010 11:14 pm

LOR wrote:
yeah. i get REALLY pissed when i notice that the music is good and the recording is shit as well.

Not that, I mean fitting production. Sometimes the best production job sounds really lifeless and sterile compared to some other "imperfect" jobs
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Mon May 31, 2010 12:49 am

I like when the tone fits the music and its not over powered for the music.
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LOR
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Mon May 31, 2010 1:43 am

Taxer666 wrote:
LOR wrote:
yeah. i get REALLY pissed when i notice that the music is good and the recording is shit as well.

Not that, I mean fitting production. Sometimes the best production job sounds really lifeless and sterile compared to some other "imperfect" jobs

i gotcha. yeah i agree. its actually better to not mess with much when you record. the best recordings are the ones where they get the sounds they want before reording it and then once they record it they mess with it as little as possible. the more you process something- the more lifeless it gets after a certain point (reverb and compression are pretty much essential). too much of anything will ruin it. then again- whatever works for the sound- i know what you mean... i think- record according to what matches the band. but also i might have to disagree becuase the perfect recording is not perfect if it sounds sterile. that means it IS imperfect. im confusing myself. hopefully there is a response that makes sense somewhere in here. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Mon May 31, 2010 9:53 am

Yep, it's possible to underproduce the sound, but overproducing it can be just as bad.
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PostSubject: Re: guitar tone?   Mon May 31, 2010 4:14 pm

Overproducing is terrible I agree.
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