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 Imagery vs ideology

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PortraitOfSanity
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PostSubject: Imagery vs ideology   Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:50 pm

http://media.hyperreal.org/zines/est/articles/freedom.html

Discuss.

And don't wuss out because you're not an industrial fan, because it relates to BM too.
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PostSubject: Re: Imagery vs ideology   Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:04 pm

Man I would read this if I wasn't studying for my exam on Saturday, summarize this a bit and I'll try to argue something lol.

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PostSubject: Re: Imagery vs ideology   Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:15 pm

Interesting point of view, let me digest it a little bit to get started. Feel free to make an opening statement.
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PostSubject: Re: Imagery vs ideology   Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:15 pm

the wordz...

theres too many of them.

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PostSubject: Re: Imagery vs ideology   Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:12 am

blackstar wrote:
Interesting point of view, let me digest it a little bit to get started. Feel free to make an opening statement.

Well, the article is pretty slanted against the use of extremist imagery, and implies that the imagery a band uses proves that the group also agrees with the ideology behind that imagery. They go through a bunch of industrial bands, from Throbbing Gristle to The Grey Wolves who use fascist imagery and a couple, mainly Test Dept, who use Communist imagery.

Some of the bands they discuss actually believe in the ideology their imagery implies, mainly Test Dept. But the majority, mainly The Grey Wolves use it either as a shock image, or as a commentary on society, or both.

Now, as it applies to Black/Death Metal, obviously there are bands that fit both. Hail of Bullets, for example, uses general WW2 and specifically Nazi themes, in their music and in their videos, but does not conform to the ideology of National Socialism. On the other hand (obviously) is the entire genre of NSBM. On a related note, I feel that the door is open for many more Communist/Socialist Black Metal, but for some reason you don't see a lot of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Imagery vs ideology   Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:37 pm

Well, political theory defiantly isn't the first thing that comes to mind when i think "black metal influences," But Punk defiantly is , and I suppose they come hand in hand. Communist/socialist inspired metal feels very narrow and I think that's why we don't see too much of it.

I feel like a lot of the time though, extremist imagery is used as a gateway into a band making a name for its self and that most bands don't believe in the imagery they use. Either way I'm 100% for using extremist imagery, keeps shit interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: Imagery vs ideology   Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:53 pm

Look at Slipknot though. I'd have so much more respect for them if half their band wasn't full of shit doing nothing during songs. They focus too much on imagery just walking around looking like characters from Clive Barker's Hellraiser. You need skill to backup stuff like that

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PostSubject: Re: Imagery vs ideology   Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:34 am

Yeah, using extreme political or any imagery is a good sell point (in all honesty) Millions of Dead Cops anyone? So it can be an effective tool in that aspect because it attracts people who see it and go WTF? or are just interested.

In using as a social comment, I don't particularly see anything wrong with it it's effective as stated.

And sometimes it's just fashion imagery a lot of Goth industrial uses very militaristic styles as they said in the article.
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PostSubject: Re: Imagery vs ideology   Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:48 am

I think imagery can definitely be a good thing. Byd, you brought up Slipknot, but their imagery and costumes are basically for the sake of looking cool (as far as I know). Bands that use controversial symbolism (Swastikas, inverted crosses, etc) often do so to reinforce a message conveyed through their music, and as an art form, it's a good thing I think. I'm not condoning nazi beliefs, anti-religious/pro-religious themes and the like, but I am condoning the use of such imagery as a extension of expres​sion(if that makes sense.) The article explained the punk movement and their extensive use of the swastika just because it challenge social and political norms. The purpose of the music was to challenge the government and the way society is, so the use of such imagery helps reinforce their stance.

Also, sometimes badass costumes and looks can be a good selling point, if we're going into commercialism, but I pretty much completely disagree with the use of imagery to make more money.
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