Tip of the Hat


 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  

Share | 
 

 Omnivores, Defend Yourself

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:12 pm

Vegetarians/Vegans constantly have to defend their diets, yet you rarely see it the other way around. Vegetarians have numerous reason to justify their lifestyle, and most of which make sense, yet how do you rationally justify an omnivore diet?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
LOR
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
avatar

Number of posts : 7797
Hedonistic Glory : 11111
Reputation : 77
Joined In : 2010-05-01
Age : 25
Location : PA

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:44 pm

vegans/ vegetarians only initially get crap i feel like just because people wonder why they made the decision to do it- religion/ feel bad about killing animals/ allergies etc. of course, being the friend of a bunch of vegetarian friends who once ate meat, i still make fun of them because i like making fun of them (cuz they're my friends)...and reminding them how awesome cheeseburgers are. some vegetarians/vegans can be pretty stuck up too.

me? well i eat meat, because i eat meat and it tastes good. i dont really care about rationalizing it. humans have eaten meat since forever. its a food source. i do feel bad though if the meat comes from a shitty ass slaughterhouse-the meat in and out burger uses comes from detestable slaughterhouses that use super in-humane methods.

SUPER IN-HUMANE haha sounds funny

interesting thread though, i'd like to hear other peoples thoughts on this

_________________
my bands- Lör
Top Hats and Effigies
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://myspace.com/halloflor
breakyoudown
Feeling brassic
Feeling brassic
avatar

Number of posts : 27750
Hedonistic Glory : 25289
Reputation : 302
Joined In : 2008-08-28
Age : 26

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:50 am

Whenever I find out one of my friends are being vegetarian I feel like they want to be unique more than them caring about the lifestyle. I hate overly sensitive feeling sorry for yourself.


That being said to those who are actually firm believers in the diet, good on you, can't stand the hipsters though

_________________
From this moment forth, my thoughts be bloody, or be nothing worth
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Taxer666
Trollsmith
Trollsmith
avatar

Number of posts : 7203
Hedonistic Glory : 10724
Reputation : 139
Joined In : 2009-11-24
Age : 26
Location : Riffsland

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:00 am

I eat meat because I eat meat. There's not much else to it. It tastes good and I don't feel bad about it. As long as you're eating a healthy amount it's good for you and it's a part of a well balanced diet.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
LOR
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
avatar

Number of posts : 7797
Hedonistic Glory : 11111
Reputation : 77
Joined In : 2010-05-01
Age : 25
Location : PA

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:14 am

breakyoudown wrote:
Whenever I find out one of my friends are being vegetarian I feel like they want to be unique more than them caring about the lifestyle. I hate overly sensitive feeling sorry for yourself.


That being said to those who are actually firm believers in the diet, good on you, can't stand the hipsters though

this is the reason i ask everyone the reason for being vegetarian. not a fan of hipster bullshit. i think my friends do it for the right reasons. sidenote though, i'll never understand veganism asside from religious reasons. how can people live without cheese?

Taxer666 wrote:
I eat meat because I eat meat. There's not much else to it. It tastes good and I don't feel bad about it. As long as you're eating a healthy amount it's good for you and it's a part of a well balanced diet.

thats kinda my point of view as well.

_________________
my bands- Lör
Top Hats and Effigies
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://myspace.com/halloflor
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:12 am

Taxer666 wrote:
As long as you're eating a healthy amount it's good for you and it's a part of a well balanced diet.
I do agree that meat can be apart of well balanced diet, and a huge portion of that comes from the quantity consumed. But isn't it a stretch to say that the meat in this day and age is healthy? The conditions of slaughter houses/factory farms, plus how the animal has become engineered, certainly can't be considered healthy? Or do you mean free range, grass fed, natural, etc. etc. meat?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:22 am

LOR wrote:
some vegetarians/vegans can be pretty stuck up too.

me? well i eat meat, because i eat meat and it tastes good. i dont really care about rationalizing it. humans have eaten meat since forever. its a food source. i do feel bad though if the meat comes from a shitty ass slaughterhouse-the meat in and out burger uses comes from detestable slaughterhouses that use super in-humane methods.
This occurs in everything, and it is not completely one sided. But you have to admit, that if you were the target of stupid and unoriginal jokes constantly, wouldn't you become stuck up, or at least cynical?

And by rationalize about it, do you mean you try not to think about it?
There's nothing wrong with eating meat, it is natural after all as you said (well, to an extent). But if you find the conditions of slaughter houses to be detestable, then why not move to change the system? You are after all the consumer, you have the power, such conditions arose from increased demand, and turning a blind eye.

Does this not resonate of Sinclair's novel "The Jungle"?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:26 am

breakyoudown wrote:
Whenever I find out one of my friends are being vegetarian I feel like they want to be unique more than them caring about the lifestyle. I hate overly sensitive feeling sorry for yourself.


That being said to those who are actually firm believers in the diet, good on you, can't stand the hipsters though
Vegans are so edgy.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Taxer666
Trollsmith
Trollsmith
avatar

Number of posts : 7203
Hedonistic Glory : 10724
Reputation : 139
Joined In : 2009-11-24
Age : 26
Location : Riffsland

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:39 pm

Bloodbeast wrote:
Taxer666 wrote:
As long as you're eating a healthy amount it's good for you and it's a part of a well balanced diet.
I do agree that meat can be apart of well balanced diet, and a huge portion of that comes from the quantity consumed. But isn't it a stretch to say that the meat in this day and age is healthy? The conditions of slaughter houses/factory farms, plus how the animal has become engineered, certainly can't be considered healthy? Or do you mean free range, grass fed, natural, etc. etc. meat?

While I do find the conditions in some slaughterhouses to be deplorable and and to some degree morally wrong, as long as those conditions and whatever enhancements are given to the animals have no significant negative effect on human health, then I consider the food to be healthy.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
VintageTorrie
Top Lad
avatar

Number of posts : 185
Hedonistic Glory : 2096
Reputation : 0
Joined In : 2012-06-11
Age : 19
Location : Scotland

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:21 pm

You need to extract as much pleasure from life as you can and meat tastes AWESOME
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://emulatorfever.forumotion.co.uk/
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:26 pm

VintageTorrie wrote:
You need to extract as much pleasure from life as you can and meat tastes AWESOME
And you find it justifiable to inflict pain in order to receive pleasure? Is the pleasure not minuscule in comparison to the pain?

And is flavor alone worth it? Is there not indeed other things that "taste AWESOME" in this world? Why is meat the equivalent to ambrosia?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
VintageTorrie
Top Lad
avatar

Number of posts : 185
Hedonistic Glory : 2096
Reputation : 0
Joined In : 2012-06-11
Age : 19
Location : Scotland

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:28 pm

Well, I don't like it when the animals are in horrible conditions beforehand, if they're going to be killed, they should at least have a good life.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://emulatorfever.forumotion.co.uk/
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:39 pm

Taxer666 wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
Taxer666 wrote:
As long as you're eating a healthy amount it's good for you and it's a part of a well balanced diet.
I do agree that meat can be apart of well balanced diet, and a huge portion of that comes from the quantity consumed. But isn't it a stretch to say that the meat in this day and age is healthy? The conditions of slaughter houses/factory farms, plus how the animal has become engineered, certainly can't be considered healthy? Or do you mean free range, grass fed, natural, etc. etc. meat?

While I do find the conditions in some slaughterhouses to be deplorable and and to some degree morally wrong, as long as those conditions and whatever enhancements are given to the animals have no significant negative effect on human health, then I consider the food to be healthy.
But there is evidence that the conditions and enhancements do have significant negative effects on human health. We have seen an explosion in diabetes and heart disease, and the trend is parallel with the increase of meat consumption over the years. Consumers have demanded a fattier choice of meat, for fat is flavor, and diets high in fat are directly linked to the two previous ailments. And to achieve this fattier meat we have altered the animal's diet, to mainly corn, hormones, and antibiotics.

The reason doctors are much more stringent on prescribing antibiotics anymore to humans is because it has been proven that the bacteria become resistant to it, and become super-bugs, they same goes for, and is becoming present in livestock.

Mad cow disease never existed until factory farms, this is a direct result of the modern conditions of factory farming, and is perhaps one of the most frightening negative effects on human health.

The hormones pumped into livestock are not meant for us, and has been linked to a multitude of cancers. The reason most of these hormones exist is through necessity within the industry, in order to get the product to mature faster, due to demans.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:46 pm

VintageTorrie wrote:
Well, I don't like it when the animals are in horrible conditions beforehand, if they're going to be killed, they should at least have a good life.
And yet billions do live in horrible conditions, and die in even worse ways. Does simply being disgusted by the condition fix the condition, that is, does a passive stance amend an active problem? An entire lifestyle change certainly is not needed, but an active change is undoubtedly needed.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
LOR
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
avatar

Number of posts : 7797
Hedonistic Glory : 11111
Reputation : 77
Joined In : 2010-05-01
Age : 25
Location : PA

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:14 pm

Bloodbeast wrote:
LOR wrote:
some vegetarians/vegans can be pretty stuck up too.

me? well i eat meat, because i eat meat and it tastes good. i dont really care about rationalizing it. humans have eaten meat since forever. its a food source. i do feel bad though if the meat comes from a shitty ass slaughterhouse-the meat in and out burger uses comes from detestable slaughterhouses that use super in-humane methods.
This occurs in everything, and it is not completely one sided. But you have to admit, that if you were the target of stupid and unoriginal jokes constantly, wouldn't you become stuck up, or at least cynical?

And by rationalize about it, do you mean you try not to think about it?
There's nothing wrong with eating meat, it is natural after all as you said (well, to an extent). But if you find the conditions of slaughter houses to be detestable, then why not move to change the system? You are after all the consumer, you have the power, such conditions arose from increased demand, and turning a blind eye.

Does this not resonate of Sinclair's novel "The Jungle"?

i dont mean "do not think about it" i mean "rationalize". i eat meat, i dont need to look further than that. and i only make fun of my friends who are vegetarian and only the ones that used to eat meat, and then very rarely at that, cuz it can get old quick. i dont eat in and out burgers because i know about the slaughterhuoses. if i know something is fucked up, ill steer away from it.

Bloodbeast wrote:
VintageTorrie wrote:
Well, I don't like it when the animals are in horrible conditions beforehand, if they're going to be killed, they should at least have a good life.
And yet billions do live in horrible conditions, and die in even worse ways. Does simply being disgusted by the condition fix the condition, that is, does a passive stance amend an active problem? An entire lifestyle change certainly is not needed, but an active change is undoubtedly needed.

being a vegetarian is not an active change. its actually doing "less" action. your simply not eating meat. join PETA if you want action.

_________________
my bands- Lör
Top Hats and Effigies
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://myspace.com/halloflor
VintageTorrie
Top Lad
avatar

Number of posts : 185
Hedonistic Glory : 2096
Reputation : 0
Joined In : 2012-06-11
Age : 19
Location : Scotland

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:17 pm

I don't see why people get so worked up over this subject. Some people eat meat, others don't, why can't we just accept that, instead of arguing like 5 year olds, and trying to guilt everyone into changing their lifestyle and choices?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://emulatorfever.forumotion.co.uk/
LOR
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
avatar

Number of posts : 7797
Hedonistic Glory : 11111
Reputation : 77
Joined In : 2010-05-01
Age : 25
Location : PA

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:25 pm

VintageTorrie wrote:
I don't see why people get so worked up over this subject. Some people eat meat, others don't, why can't we just accept that, instead of arguing like 5 year olds, and trying to guilt everyone into changing their lifestyle and choices?

people need to save the world. but honestly this conversation is kinda interesting. and this forum needs some good ol arguments now

_________________
my bands- Lör
Top Hats and Effigies
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://myspace.com/halloflor
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:27 pm

LOR wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
LOR wrote:
some vegetarians/vegans can be pretty stuck up too.

me? well i eat meat, because i eat meat and it tastes good. i dont really care about rationalizing it. humans have eaten meat since forever. its a food source. i do feel bad though if the meat comes from a shitty ass slaughterhouse-the meat in and out burger uses comes from detestable slaughterhouses that use super in-humane methods.
This occurs in everything, and it is not completely one sided. But you have to admit, that if you were the target of stupid and unoriginal jokes constantly, wouldn't you become stuck up, or at least cynical?

And by rationalize about it, do you mean you try not to think about it?
There's nothing wrong with eating meat, it is natural after all as you said (well, to an extent). But if you find the conditions of slaughter houses to be detestable, then why not move to change the system? You are after all the consumer, you have the power, such conditions arose from increased demand, and turning a blind eye.

Does this not resonate of Sinclair's novel "The Jungle"?

i dont mean "do not think about it" i mean "rationalize". i eat meat, i dont need to look further than that. and i only make fun of my friends who are vegetarian and only the ones that used to eat meat, and then very rarely at that, cuz it can get old quick. i dont eat in and out burgers because i know about the slaughterhuoses. if i know something is fucked up, ill steer away from it.

Bloodbeast wrote:
VintageTorrie wrote:
Well, I don't like it when the animals are in horrible conditions beforehand, if they're going to be killed, they should at least have a good life.
And yet billions do live in horrible conditions, and die in even worse ways. Does simply being disgusted by the condition fix the condition, that is, does a passive stance amend an active problem? An entire lifestyle change certainly is not needed, but an active change is undoubtedly needed.

being a vegetarian is not an active change. its actually doing "less" action. your simply not eating meat. join PETA if you want action.
Omnivorousnism is doing nothing, vegetarian is doing something, it may seem like taking a "less action", but it is way more than the typical omnivore does. And veganism is one step further, in which you wash your hands of the entire thing. They are an active change,
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Taxer666
Trollsmith
Trollsmith
avatar

Number of posts : 7203
Hedonistic Glory : 10724
Reputation : 139
Joined In : 2009-11-24
Age : 26
Location : Riffsland

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:30 pm

Bloodbeast wrote:
Taxer666 wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
Taxer666 wrote:
As long as you're eating a healthy amount it's good for you and it's a part of a well balanced diet.
I do agree that meat can be apart of well balanced diet, and a huge portion of that comes from the quantity consumed. But isn't it a stretch to say that the meat in this day and age is healthy? The conditions of slaughter houses/factory farms, plus how the animal has become engineered, certainly can't be considered healthy? Or do you mean free range, grass fed, natural, etc. etc. meat?

While I do find the conditions in some slaughterhouses to be deplorable and and to some degree morally wrong, as long as those conditions and whatever enhancements are given to the animals have no significant negative effect on human health, then I consider the food to be healthy.
But there is evidence that the conditions and enhancements do have significant negative effects on human health. We have seen an explosion in diabetes and heart disease, and the trend is parallel with the increase of meat consumption over the years. Consumers have demanded a fattier choice of meat, for fat is flavor, and diets high in fat are directly linked to the two previous ailments. And to achieve this fattier meat we have altered the animal's diet, to mainly corn, hormones, and antibiotics.

The reason doctors are much more stringent on prescribing antibiotics anymore to humans is because it has been proven that the bacteria become resistant to it, and become super-bugs, they same goes for, and is becoming present in livestock.

Mad cow disease never existed until factory farms, this is a direct result of the modern conditions of factory farming, and is perhaps one of the most frightening negative effects on human health.

The hormones pumped into livestock are not meant for us, and has been linked to a multitude of cancers. The reason most of these hormones exist is through necessity within the industry, in order to get the product to mature faster, due to demans.

Like I said, if the food is healthy, then it does not have significant negative effects on human health. Although there might be a correlation between meat consumption and increase in heart disease and diabetes, that does not necessitate that one causes the other. There may also be other contributing factors such as the rise in processed foods, mass production of fatty and sugary foods, an increased trend in poor diet and exercise, etc. If fattier meat is the culprit, then eating lean meat would then alleviate this problem.

As long as the what is fed to the animals has no significant ill effects on people, then it does not matter what is given to them in a strict self-interested consumer model.

Mad cow disease has not affected people at all. While it is a shame for the afflicted cattle, it poses no health risk to the human population.

If these hormones are truly linked with cancer and other damage to humans, then yes the industry should reform their practices.

This really all falls under regulation. If the industry is regulated to the point where meat consumption is healthy for humans (animal cruelty can be included as well, but quite frankly it isn't really necessary if once again we take a purely self-interested consumer model). Now this would ultimately make meat more expensive, which is absolutely fine for me, but this would mean that meat would be more scarce for poorer families and overall more costly to the food industry. So ultimately what ends up happening is a balance between cost and regulation, which isn't so bad assuming there is sufficient regulation at hand.

None of this really deters me from eating meat however, as once again it provides me with nourishment and pleasure in the form of taste. Not only that, but it is ultimately healthier to consume some meat than it is to consume no meat at all. I really see no reason to become a Vegetarian or Vegan other than for moral beliefs and feelings.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:34 pm

VintageTorrie wrote:
I don't see why people get so worked up over this subject. Some people eat meat, others don't, why can't we just accept that, instead of arguing like 5 year olds, and trying to guilt everyone into changing their lifestyle and choices?
Probably because this subject is interwoven into everything. Moral, philosophical, economical, social, and a huge factor environmental. Are you saying that all the problems that stem from the underlining cause should simply be ignored? Is to save peoples feelings? To not face hard truths?

And regardless. I fully accept the fact the people eat meat, and people will always eat meat, but change certainly does need to happen, to remedy the problems previously stated.

By your logic, some people are racist, others aren't, so we should ignore it. Segregation surely would still be employed to this day, unless people pushed for the revolution of their current system. Perhaps revolution is too strong a word to apply to this.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:51 pm

Quote :
Like I said, if the food is healthy, then it does not have significant negative effects on human health. Although there might be a correlation between meat consumption and increase in heart disease and diabetes, that does not necessitate that one causes the other. There may also be other contributing factors such as the rise in processed foods, mass production of fatty and sugary foods, an increased trend in poor diet and exercise, etc. If fattier meat is the culprit, then eating lean meat would then alleviate this problem.

As long as the what is fed to the animals has no significant ill effects on people, then it does not matter what is given to them in a strict self-interested consumer model.

Mad cow disease has not affected people at all. While it is a shame for the afflicted cattle, it poses no health risk to the human population.

If these hormones are truly linked with cancer and other damage to humans, then yes the industry should reform their practices.

This really all falls under regulation. If the industry is regulated to the point where meat consumption is healthy for humans (animal cruelty can be included as well, but quite frankly it isn't really necessary if once again we take a purely self-interested consumer model). Now this would ultimately make meat more expensive, which is absolutely fine for me, but this would mean that meat would be more scarce for poorer families and overall more costly to the food industry. So ultimately what ends up happening is a balance between cost and regulation, which isn't so bad assuming there is sufficient regulation at hand.

None of this really deters me from eating meat however, as once again it provides me with nourishment and pleasure in the form of taste. Not only that, but it is ultimately healthier to consume some meat than it is to consume no meat at all. I really see no reason to become a Vegetarian or Vegan other than for moral beliefs and feelings.
It would seem that what I said assumes that meat is the sole culprit for diabetes and heart disease, but as you said, it is a culmination of the entire modern food industry.

The feed does not directly effect human health. However, it is the feed which leads to factors that harm human health. For example, cows are not meant to eat corn, they are meant to eat grass, corn actually makes them sick until their bodies can adjust well enough to the corn. That's where some of the antibiotics come into play. They are pumped full of the antibiotics, just so they are able to consume corn, which they aren't meant to eat in the first place.

Mad cow disease does in fact affect humans.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/health/research/red-meat-linked-to-cancer-and-heart-disease.html

Concerning hormones, this is one extremely common one:
http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/rbgh/

And the regulations are a joke. Lobbyists. Meat is supsidized by the government more than anything else:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8lsw88j691rsfk85o1_500.jpg
It's no different than oil, the price of oil does not in fact reflect the actual costs of the product, it is purely speculation, a fabrication of industry, in favor of industry.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:59 pm

I cite the philosopher, Jean-Paul Sartre. Paraphrased. “One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.”

And besides, *irish accent* how can you have your pudding, if you don't eat your meat?
Back to top Go down
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:10 pm

Gravy Gulper wrote:
I cite the philosopher, Jean-Paul Sartre. Paraphrased. “One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.”

And besides, *irish accent* how can you have your pudding, if you don't eat your meat?
So, to sum up, you are going to die, so enjoy life?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:37 pm

Yeah, your life is the only experience you get. Drink as much as possible.
Back to top Go down
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:39 pm

Gravy Gulper wrote:
Yeah, your life is the only experience you get. Drink as much as possible.
Does this not seem selfish to you?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Taxer666
Trollsmith
Trollsmith
avatar

Number of posts : 7203
Hedonistic Glory : 10724
Reputation : 139
Joined In : 2009-11-24
Age : 26
Location : Riffsland

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:16 pm

Does it matter?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
VintageTorrie
Top Lad
avatar

Number of posts : 185
Hedonistic Glory : 2096
Reputation : 0
Joined In : 2012-06-11
Age : 19
Location : Scotland

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:18 pm

Bloodbeast wrote:
So, to sum up, you are going to die, so enjoy life?

Why not? There's no point in living if there's nothing to enjoy.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://emulatorfever.forumotion.co.uk/
LOR
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
avatar

Number of posts : 7797
Hedonistic Glory : 11111
Reputation : 77
Joined In : 2010-05-01
Age : 25
Location : PA

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:24 pm

Bloodbeast wrote:
LOR wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
LOR wrote:
some vegetarians/vegans can be pretty stuck up too.

me? well i eat meat, because i eat meat and it tastes good. i dont really care about rationalizing it. humans have eaten meat since forever. its a food source. i do feel bad though if the meat comes from a shitty ass slaughterhouse-the meat in and out burger uses comes from detestable slaughterhouses that use super in-humane methods.
This occurs in everything, and it is not completely one sided. But you have to admit, that if you were the target of stupid and unoriginal jokes constantly, wouldn't you become stuck up, or at least cynical?

And by rationalize about it, do you mean you try not to think about it?
There's nothing wrong with eating meat, it is natural after all as you said (well, to an extent). But if you find the conditions of slaughter houses to be detestable, then why not move to change the system? You are after all the consumer, you have the power, such conditions arose from increased demand, and turning a blind eye.

Does this not resonate of Sinclair's novel "The Jungle"?

i dont mean "do not think about it" i mean "rationalize". i eat meat, i dont need to look further than that. and i only make fun of my friends who are vegetarian and only the ones that used to eat meat, and then very rarely at that, cuz it can get old quick. i dont eat in and out burgers because i know about the slaughterhuoses. if i know something is fucked up, ill steer away from it.

Bloodbeast wrote:
VintageTorrie wrote:
Well, I don't like it when the animals are in horrible conditions beforehand, if they're going to be killed, they should at least have a good life.
And yet billions do live in horrible conditions, and die in even worse ways. Does simply being disgusted by the condition fix the condition, that is, does a passive stance amend an active problem? An entire lifestyle change certainly is not needed, but an active change is undoubtedly needed.

being a vegetarian is not an active change. its actually doing "less" action. your simply not eating meat. join PETA if you want action.
Omnivorousnism is doing nothing, vegetarian is doing something, it may seem like taking a "less action", but it is way more than the typical omnivore does. And veganism is one step further, in which you wash your hands of the entire thing. They are an active change,

there is only a problem worth taking action if i feel like there is a problem to begin with. and i dont. i dont eat from places that i know are inhumane. in your definition, im active. i would consider both lifestyles doing nothing though. its just what you prefer to eat.

_________________
my bands- Lör
Top Hats and Effigies
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://myspace.com/halloflor
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:24 pm

VintageTorrie wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
So, to sum up, you are going to die, so enjoy life?

Why not? There's no point in living if there's nothing to enjoy.
But it's only a pleasure of the flesh, and a petty one at that.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
VintageTorrie
Top Lad
avatar

Number of posts : 185
Hedonistic Glory : 2096
Reputation : 0
Joined In : 2012-06-11
Age : 19
Location : Scotland

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:26 pm

Some people may enjoy meat more than others, you can't really say it's a petty pleasure.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://emulatorfever.forumotion.co.uk/
Taxer666
Trollsmith
Trollsmith
avatar

Number of posts : 7203
Hedonistic Glory : 10724
Reputation : 139
Joined In : 2009-11-24
Age : 26
Location : Riffsland

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:26 pm

If it's good enough for him then it is good enough for him.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
LOR
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
avatar

Number of posts : 7797
Hedonistic Glory : 11111
Reputation : 77
Joined In : 2010-05-01
Age : 25
Location : PA

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:28 pm

Bloodbeast wrote:
Quote :
Like I said, if the food is healthy, then it does not have significant negative effects on human health. Although there might be a correlation between meat consumption and increase in heart disease and diabetes, that does not necessitate that one causes the other. There may also be other contributing factors such as the rise in processed foods, mass production of fatty and sugary foods, an increased trend in poor diet and exercise, etc. If fattier meat is the culprit, then eating lean meat would then alleviate this problem.

As long as the what is fed to the animals has no significant ill effects on people, then it does not matter what is given to them in a strict self-interested consumer model.

Mad cow disease has not affected people at all. While it is a shame for the afflicted cattle, it poses no health risk to the human population.

If these hormones are truly linked with cancer and other damage to humans, then yes the industry should reform their practices.

This really all falls under regulation. If the industry is regulated to the point where meat consumption is healthy for humans (animal cruelty can be included as well, but quite frankly it isn't really necessary if once again we take a purely self-interested consumer model). Now this would ultimately make meat more expensive, which is absolutely fine for me, but this would mean that meat would be more scarce for poorer families and overall more costly to the food industry. So ultimately what ends up happening is a balance between cost and regulation, which isn't so bad assuming there is sufficient regulation at hand.

None of this really deters me from eating meat however, as once again it provides me with nourishment and pleasure in the form of taste. Not only that, but it is ultimately healthier to consume some meat than it is to consume no meat at all. I really see no reason to become a Vegetarian or Vegan other than for moral beliefs and feelings.
It would seem that what I said assumes that meat is the sole culprit for diabetes and heart disease, but as you said, it is a culmination of the entire modern food industry.

The feed does not directly effect human health. However, it is the feed which leads to factors that harm human health. For example, cows are not meant to eat corn, they are meant to eat grass, corn actually makes them sick until their bodies can adjust well enough to the corn. That's where some of the antibiotics come into play. They are pumped full of the antibiotics, just so they are able to consume corn, which they aren't meant to eat in the first place.

Mad cow disease does in fact affect humans.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/health/research/red-meat-linked-to-cancer-and-heart-disease.html

Concerning hormones, this is one extremely common one:
http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/rbgh/

And the regulations are a joke. Lobbyists. Meat is supsidized by the government more than anything else:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8lsw88j691rsfk85o1_500.jpg
It's no different than oil, the price of oil does not in fact reflect the actual costs of the product, it is purely speculation, a fabrication of industry, in favor of industry.

if we are talking about health concerns for humans, this doesnt bother me at all. im fine, so im gonna eat meat. for cows though, only grass fed beef for me.

Bloodbeast wrote:
Gravy Gulper wrote:
Yeah, your life is the only experience you get. Drink as much as possible.
Does this not seem selfish to you?
what does drinking a lot have to do with being selfish?

_________________
my bands- Lör
Top Hats and Effigies
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://myspace.com/halloflor
LOR
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
avatar

Number of posts : 7797
Hedonistic Glory : 11111
Reputation : 77
Joined In : 2010-05-01
Age : 25
Location : PA

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:29 pm

Bloodbeast wrote:
VintageTorrie wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
So, to sum up, you are going to die, so enjoy life?

Why not? There's no point in living if there's nothing to enjoy.
But it's only a pleasure of the flesh, and a petty one at that.

pleasures of flesh are still pleasures

_________________
my bands- Lör
Top Hats and Effigies
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://myspace.com/halloflor
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:30 pm

Quote :
there is only a problem worth taking action if i feel like there is a problem to begin with. and i dont. i dont eat from places that i know are inhumane. in your definition, im active. i would consider both lifestyles doing nothing though. its just what you prefer to eat.
What is your criteria for inhumane? and to what extent is your compassion? The vegan philosophy encompasses so much more than flesh consumption, I mean, have you ever brooded over where everything comes from, especially that which comes from animals, e.g. leather or fur?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:31 pm

LOR wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
VintageTorrie wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
So, to sum up, you are going to die, so enjoy life?

Why not? There's no point in living if there's nothing to enjoy.
But it's only a pleasure of the flesh, and a petty one at that.

pleasures of flesh are still pleasures
I'm not denying that they are pleasures, I'm just saying that a slice of bacon is such a PETTY pleasure.

EDIT: And are pleasures of the flesh greater than that of the mind, spirit, heart, etc? Less tangible pleasures?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
VintageTorrie
Top Lad
avatar

Number of posts : 185
Hedonistic Glory : 2096
Reputation : 0
Joined In : 2012-06-11
Age : 19
Location : Scotland

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:34 pm

In today's cruel world, everyone deserves pleasure of some sort, even if it is small
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://emulatorfever.forumotion.co.uk/
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:35 pm

LOR wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
Quote :
Like I said, if the food is healthy, then it does not have significant negative effects on human health. Although there might be a correlation between meat consumption and increase in heart disease and diabetes, that does not necessitate that one causes the other. There may also be other contributing factors such as the rise in processed foods, mass production of fatty and sugary foods, an increased trend in poor diet and exercise, etc. If fattier meat is the culprit, then eating lean meat would then alleviate this problem.

As long as the what is fed to the animals has no significant ill effects on people, then it does not matter what is given to them in a strict self-interested consumer model.

Mad cow disease has not affected people at all. While it is a shame for the afflicted cattle, it poses no health risk to the human population.

If these hormones are truly linked with cancer and other damage to humans, then yes the industry should reform their practices.

This really all falls under regulation. If the industry is regulated to the point where meat consumption is healthy for humans (animal cruelty can be included as well, but quite frankly it isn't really necessary if once again we take a purely self-interested consumer model). Now this would ultimately make meat more expensive, which is absolutely fine for me, but this would mean that meat would be more scarce for poorer families and overall more costly to the food industry. So ultimately what ends up happening is a balance between cost and regulation, which isn't so bad assuming there is sufficient regulation at hand.

None of this really deters me from eating meat however, as once again it provides me with nourishment and pleasure in the form of taste. Not only that, but it is ultimately healthier to consume some meat than it is to consume no meat at all. I really see no reason to become a Vegetarian or Vegan other than for moral beliefs and feelings.
It would seem that what I said assumes that meat is the sole culprit for diabetes and heart disease, but as you said, it is a culmination of the entire modern food industry.

The feed does not directly effect human health. However, it is the feed which leads to factors that harm human health. For example, cows are not meant to eat corn, they are meant to eat grass, corn actually makes them sick until their bodies can adjust well enough to the corn. That's where some of the antibiotics come into play. They are pumped full of the antibiotics, just so they are able to consume corn, which they aren't meant to eat in the first place.

Mad cow disease does in fact affect humans.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/health/research/red-meat-linked-to-cancer-and-heart-disease.html

Concerning hormones, this is one extremely common one:
http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/rbgh/

And the regulations are a joke. Lobbyists. Meat is supsidized by the government more than anything else:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8lsw88j691rsfk85o1_500.jpg
It's no different than oil, the price of oil does not in fact reflect the actual costs of the product, it is purely speculation, a fabrication of industry, in favor of industry.

if we are talking about health concerns for humans, this doesnt bother me at all. im fine, so im gonna eat meat. for cows though, only grass fed beef for me.

Bloodbeast wrote:
Gravy Gulper wrote:
Yeah, your life is the only experience you get. Drink as much as possible.
Does this not seem selfish to you?
what does drinking a lot have to do with being selfish?
Grass fed is fantastic, but is it freed from hormones or antibiotics? Life span? SLAUGHTER PROCESS? That''s a huge one.

And as for drinking, I don't believe he means the act of drinking, rather, life, drink in life as much as possible.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:36 pm

VintageTorrie wrote:
In today's cruel world, everyone deserves pleasure of some sort, even if it is small
Everyone? Why not Everything?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:37 pm

Taxer666 wrote:
Does it matter?
Yes. If this doesn't matter, then what else doesn't matter? Shall we all give in to absolute nihilism?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
VintageTorrie
Top Lad
avatar

Number of posts : 185
Hedonistic Glory : 2096
Reputation : 0
Joined In : 2012-06-11
Age : 19
Location : Scotland

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:38 pm

Bloodbeast wrote:
Everyone? Why not Everything?

Animals that are bred specifically for meat don't know the pleasures us humans do, meaning what little they have is enough for them.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://emulatorfever.forumotion.co.uk/
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:40 pm

VintageTorrie wrote:
Some people may enjoy meat more than others, you can't really say it's a petty pleasure.
But would you deny that it a ethereal pleasure? I can have it for a moment, and then it will slip away, does such a pleasure stay within me for a lifetime? Can I conjure up nostalgic feelings of meat the way I can of love? If I can, would they ever bear the same weight?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
VintageTorrie
Top Lad
avatar

Number of posts : 185
Hedonistic Glory : 2096
Reputation : 0
Joined In : 2012-06-11
Age : 19
Location : Scotland

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:42 pm

It certainly isn't an ethereal pleasure, but small moments of happiness are better than none at all
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://emulatorfever.forumotion.co.uk/
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:43 pm

VintageTorrie wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
Everyone? Why not Everything?

Animals that are bred specifically for meat don't know the pleasures us humans do, meaning what little they have is enough for them.
You mean to measure sentience? Intelligence? Set up a hierarchy of worth? Is that your intention?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
LOR
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
avatar

Number of posts : 7797
Hedonistic Glory : 11111
Reputation : 77
Joined In : 2010-05-01
Age : 25
Location : PA

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:45 pm

Bloodbeast wrote:
Quote :
there is only a problem worth taking action if i feel like there is a problem to begin with. and i dont. i dont eat from places that i know are inhumane. in your definition, im active. i would consider both lifestyles doing nothing though. its just what you prefer to eat.
What is your criteria for inhumane? and to what extent is your compassion? The vegan philosophy encompasses so much more than flesh consumption, I mean, have you ever brooded over where everything comes from, especially that which comes from animals, e.g. leather or fur?

explain the vegan philosophy. im pretty sure its not a cult. vegans become vegans for different reasons. i also know vegetarians that dont give a shit about animals, they just dont like meat. and yes ive thought about where things come from, and honestly i thought that this was the entire purpose of this thread. i dont feel bad about eating meat- which is the case closed for me. Making sure the animals are treated well before (and during i guess) they are killed is fine with me. i dont really wear leather or fur. i have a leather jacket but that was given as a gift. who still wears fur these days besides weird rich people?

Bloodbeast wrote:
LOR wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
VintageTorrie wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
So, to sum up, you are going to die, so enjoy life?

Why not? There's no point in living if there's nothing to enjoy.
But it's only a pleasure of the flesh, and a petty one at that.

pleasures of flesh are still pleasures
I'm not denying that they are pleasures, I'm just saying that a slice of bacon is such a PETTY pleasure.


TAKE THAT BACK. but seriously, this is really subjective. Food is super-cultural and can be a means of connecting with people. Thats not a petty pleasure. its actually super-important.

_________________
my bands- Lör
Top Hats and Effigies
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://myspace.com/halloflor
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:47 pm

VintageTorrie wrote:
It certainly isn't an ethereal pleasure, but small moments of happiness are better than none at all
So you mean to say that such a pleasure is one that you will look fondly upon in the future? And small moments are better than none, but are you truly at a deficit of pleasure? Are the pleasures in your life scarce and infrequent?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
VintageTorrie
Top Lad
avatar

Number of posts : 185
Hedonistic Glory : 2096
Reputation : 0
Joined In : 2012-06-11
Age : 19
Location : Scotland

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:48 pm

The animals have only been exposed to fields and such, while we have been exposed to much more wonderful things. We can appreciate these things more then animals can.

And, I know this sounds cruel, but I don't really give a shit, animals aren't as intelligent as us humans, especially ones that we breed specifically for meat. The simply don't have the mental ability that we humans do.

Besides, they are killed in a quick, painless way, they most likely don't even realise what's happening.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://emulatorfever.forumotion.co.uk/
VintageTorrie
Top Lad
avatar

Number of posts : 185
Hedonistic Glory : 2096
Reputation : 0
Joined In : 2012-06-11
Age : 19
Location : Scotland

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:49 pm

Bloodbeast wrote:
VintageTorrie wrote:
It certainly isn't an ethereal pleasure, but small moments of happiness are better than none at all
So you mean to say that such a pleasure is one that you will look fondly upon in the future? And small moments are better than none, but are you truly at a deficit of pleasure? Are the pleasures in your life scarce and infrequent?

No, not for me, but think about poorer families. Are they meant to starve to death, just to save a few animals that don't really contribute to society?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://emulatorfever.forumotion.co.uk/
LOR
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
avatar

Number of posts : 7797
Hedonistic Glory : 11111
Reputation : 77
Joined In : 2010-05-01
Age : 25
Location : PA

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:53 pm

Bloodbeast wrote:
VintageTorrie wrote:
In today's cruel world, everyone deserves pleasure of some sort, even if it is small
Everyone? Why not Everything?
sure everything can and maybe should obtain happiness but shit happens. the weak die.

Bloodbeast wrote:
Taxer666 wrote:
Does it matter?
Yes. If this doesn't matter, then what else doesn't matter? Shall we all give in to absolute nihilism?

this is where im starting to think your taking this a bit too dar
Bloodbeast wrote:
VintageTorrie wrote:
Some people may enjoy meat more than others, you can't really say it's a petty pleasure.
But would you deny that it a ethereal pleasure? I can have it for a moment, and then it will slip away, does such a pleasure stay within me for a lifetime? Can I conjure up nostalgic feelings of meat the way I can of love? If I can, would they ever bear the same weight?
i think your argument is getting retarded. just because something is not as awesome as an "ethereal" "spiritual" pleasure does not mean its not worth indulging in. with your argument we should just find the most spiritual awesome thing in the universe and only do that because why do anything else if its not as awesome as that thing? "this isn't as great as this thing, so why even do it at all?" is a dumb argument... but im also starting to suspect this is a giant well-orchestrated troll...

_________________
my bands- Lör
Top Hats and Effigies
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://myspace.com/halloflor
Bloodbeast
The Cuddle Monster
avatar

Number of posts : 1638
Hedonistic Glory : 4788
Reputation : 34
Joined In : 2009-08-26
Age : 24
Location : North Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:55 pm

LOR wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
Quote :
there is only a problem worth taking action if i feel like there is a problem to begin with. and i dont. i dont eat from places that i know are inhumane. in your definition, im active. i would consider both lifestyles doing nothing though. its just what you prefer to eat.
What is your criteria for inhumane? and to what extent is your compassion? The vegan philosophy encompasses so much more than flesh consumption, I mean, have you ever brooded over where everything comes from, especially that which comes from animals, e.g. leather or fur?

explain the vegan philosophy. im pretty sure its not a cult. vegans become vegans for different reasons. i also know vegetarians that dont give a shit about animals, they just dont like meat. and yes ive thought about where things come from, and honestly i thought that this was the entire purpose of this thread. i dont feel bad about eating meat- which is the case closed for me. Making sure the animals are treated well before (and during i guess) they are killed is fine with me. i dont really wear leather or fur. i have a leather jacket but that was given as a gift. who still wears fur these days besides weird rich people?

Bloodbeast wrote:
LOR wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
VintageTorrie wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
So, to sum up, you are going to die, so enjoy life?

Why not? There's no point in living if there's nothing to enjoy.
But it's only a pleasure of the flesh, and a petty one at that.

pleasures of flesh are still pleasures
I'm not denying that they are pleasures, I'm just saying that a slice of bacon is such a PETTY pleasure.


TAKE THAT BACK. but seriously, this is really subjective. Food is super-cultural and can be a means of connecting with people. Thats not a petty pleasure. its actually super-important.
There is an underlining idea behind veganism, and that is not to use anything that caused life or labor, or deprived an animal of its natural happiness. And how is your justification not an oxymoron? To say that you do care about how the animals are treated before and during slaughter, but not care about the animal itself. How can you have fleeting compassion?

But can you tell me, with absolute certainty, that the pleasure of food is more important than the pleasures derived from love, compassion, friendship, liberty, justice, etc.?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
LOR
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
Ninja Viking Lord of the Pit of Despair and Stuff
avatar

Number of posts : 7797
Hedonistic Glory : 11111
Reputation : 77
Joined In : 2010-05-01
Age : 25
Location : PA

PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:58 pm

Bloodbeast wrote:
LOR wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
Quote :
there is only a problem worth taking action if i feel like there is a problem to begin with. and i dont. i dont eat from places that i know are inhumane. in your definition, im active. i would consider both lifestyles doing nothing though. its just what you prefer to eat.
What is your criteria for inhumane? and to what extent is your compassion? The vegan philosophy encompasses so much more than flesh consumption, I mean, have you ever brooded over where everything comes from, especially that which comes from animals, e.g. leather or fur?

explain the vegan philosophy. im pretty sure its not a cult. vegans become vegans for different reasons. i also know vegetarians that dont give a shit about animals, they just dont like meat. and yes ive thought about where things come from, and honestly i thought that this was the entire purpose of this thread. i dont feel bad about eating meat- which is the case closed for me. Making sure the animals are treated well before (and during i guess) they are killed is fine with me. i dont really wear leather or fur. i have a leather jacket but that was given as a gift. who still wears fur these days besides weird rich people?

Bloodbeast wrote:
LOR wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
VintageTorrie wrote:
Bloodbeast wrote:
So, to sum up, you are going to die, so enjoy life?

Why not? There's no point in living if there's nothing to enjoy.
But it's only a pleasure of the flesh, and a petty one at that.

pleasures of flesh are still pleasures
I'm not denying that they are pleasures, I'm just saying that a slice of bacon is such a PETTY pleasure.


TAKE THAT BACK. but seriously, this is really subjective. Food is super-cultural and can be a means of connecting with people. Thats not a petty pleasure. its actually super-important.
There is an underlining idea behind veganism, and that is not to use anything that caused life or labor, or deprived an animal of its natural happiness. And how is your justification not an oxymoron? To say that you do care about how the animals are treated before and during slaughter, but not care about the animal itself. How can you have fleeting compassion?

But can you tell me, with absolute certainty, that the pleasure of food is more important than the pleasures derived from love, compassion, friendship, liberty, justice, etc.?

no but whos to say that all pleasures that are less that those things are not worth having. thats retarded . its not more important. no one is fucking saying that. its just a pleasure...fucking hell man. food can also be a means to those higher pleasures you listed. your just spouting out arguments to make meat eaters look bad. im starting look at you in a negative light at this point. your building straw men to knock them down.

_________________
my bands- Lör
Top Hats and Effigies


Last edited by LOR on Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://myspace.com/halloflor
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Omnivores, Defend Yourself   

Back to top Go down
 
Omnivores, Defend Yourself
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 3Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Tip of the Hat :: Preposterous Palaver and Infinite Jest-
Jump to: